Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely are people like this, but the problem is that it becomes a lot less obvious when people who have high incomes are living beyond their means.

I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood. You'd hear about a friend's family having to move because of eviction, but then they'd show up to school in a new pair of Jordans.

High income people still live in the fancy house and still drive the german cars even though they might have debt out the wazoo. They're not living on the razor's edge like a poorer family.

OP here. I'm not so sure I agree that it's less obvious. Of course, there's always exceptions.

Most of my peers are big law, doctors, consultants, executives. The pay for these kind of jobs are known entities. For example, an of-counsel at a big law is probably making around 400. Or maybe it's 350 or 450, but I know I'm not that much off. It's relatively easy to triangulate pay for people like us: highly skilled, yet totally replaceable worker bees. Because we're so replaceable, the pay scale isn't that much of a mystery.

But at higher income, you have less certainty where the money is coming from. Is it just salary? Or is it some kind of passive income or family money? I'm pretty sure that the people I grew up with didn't have trusts.

Anonymous wrote:There definitely are people like this, but the problem is that it becomes a lot less obvious when people who have high incomes are living beyond their means.

I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood. You'd hear about a friend's family having to move because of eviction, but then they'd show up to school in a new pair of Jordans.

High income people still live in the fancy house and still drive the german cars even though they might have debt out the wazoo. They're not living on the razor's edge like a poorer family.

OP here. I'm not so sure I agree that it's less obvious. Of course, there's always exceptions.

Most of my peers are big law, doctors, consultants, executives. The pay for these kind of jobs are known entities. For example, an of-counsel at a big law is probably making around 400. Or maybe it's 350 or 450, but I know I'm not that much off. It's relatively easy to triangulate pay for people like us: highly skilled, yet totally replaceable worker bees. Because we're so replaceable, the pay scale isn't that much of a mystery.

You are all missing OP's point. She's asking about upper and UMC. You are all talking about MC and LMC.

I have a friend who I think lives outside her means.. but I don't know.

What I know is that within a year or two she went from living a modest but comfortable life to owning a massive, beautiful home decorated straight out of a Pottery Barn catalog. She never wears the same designer clothes, has fancy cars and a fancy boat, vacations regularly to Bermuda, and became a stay at home mom. Her kids go to private school, and wear designer/trendy clothes, plus she has a part time nanny available whenever she needs a sitter, and just seems to have a lot of additional wealth. Her husband has a good job- but the instant change in a short period of time makes me wonder.

That being said, my gut instinct with them is that the additional funds are coming from a trust/inheritance that I am unaware of. I still think they went from zero to 180 on the spending... way too fast... but I have to believe their is a source of income beyond the husbands salary.

Anonymous wrote:There definitely are people like this, but the problem is that it becomes a lot less obvious when people who have high incomes are living beyond their means.

I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood. You'd hear about a friend's family having to move because of eviction, but then they'd show up to school in a new pair of Jordans.

High income people still live in the fancy house and still drive the german cars even though they might have debt out the wazoo. They're not living on the razor's edge like a poorer family.

If you grew up in a lower middle Class neighborhood how many UMC friends did you have who got evicted?

There are people that live paycheck to paycheck at all income levels

The key is if you are upper or UMC if you get laid off you can generally find a job in less than six months and in worst situations you can liquidate some things.

Some months we live above our means and some months we don't. Overall we are headed in the right direction though.

I know a lot of middle class people who live above their means. They are the ones who may want the upper income lifestyle but can't quite afford it.

I will say from my perspective, we sometimes live beyond our means. We're not buying Benz and Polo, but the money that we spend ordering takeout because we're too tired to cook has to come from somewhere and our monthly margins are pretty tight. Have not been able to save money of any kind in 6 months. Have not contributed to retirement in 2 years.

I'm not wealthy, but I know a good number of people who have good jobs, gorgeous homes, fancy cars and are also heavily in debt (considering bankruptcy kind of debt). I hear about it more from people in closed facebook groups, I think people are less likely to share this info with local friends.

It depends what you mean by "beyond their means."

I can tell you about people with a combined income somewhere in the range of $500k or $600k, but they have four kids in private school, then private colleges, they have a second house on the Eastern shore, they have several boats, they drive new cars, the kids drive new cars, etc.

And they regularly need their employer to verify their income to lending institutions for loans and various cash-out refis.

There definitely are people like this, but the problem is that it becomes a lot less obvious when people who have high incomes are living beyond their means.

I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood. You'd hear about a friend's family having to move because of eviction, but then they'd show up to school in a new pair of Jordans.

High income people still live in the fancy house and still drive the german cars even though they might have debt out the wazoo. They're not living on the razor's edge like a poorer family.

No, but I read on here that a lot of middle class people think that all people with nice cars and homes are living paycheck to paycheck. In reality, lots of people just make a lot of money and can easily afford this stuff and to save.

There is an equal number of foolish people in all walks of life.

It's just that you can't see the foolishness so easily in wealthy families. The debts are huge, the house and cars and vacations as well.

I ask this coming from a low-income background. I grew up in a high-crime, poor area. However, people would splurge on second-hand Benzes and Polo shirts (which was huge in the 80's, remember?). Now comfortable at top 2% of income range in DC.

A theme on this board and in the news is that people in this top range also spend too much. Event those making high six-figures may be spending way too much on cars, private schools and homes. Hmm. Do these people really exist? While I saw people spend foolishly at the bottom, I don't see it as much where I am now.

Asking out of morbid curiosity. And to be honest, out of jealously. I sometimes wish I had a nicer house and could send my kids to Sidwell. But I remind myself that while I could technically afford it, that lifestyle would totally own us.