Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 15:26     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?


You need serious counseling. It's clear why you are divorced.

You have the inability to see how your actions have consequences and you are always blaming others outside of yourself for your predicament.


OP here. WOW, dcum never fails to absolutely leap screaming into judgement when people are looking for help and perspective.

Yes, my actions have consequences. For one, I'm stricter with discipline and she doesn't like it. Her mother frequently gives in to her and lets DD bully her into submission. How do I know this? DD2.

I'm specifically looking at advice like:

Appeal to the child’s conscience that he or she is rejecting, hurting, and humiliating an innocent party who cares for that child

Appeal to the child’s critical thinking (intelligence and emotions) and make the child aware of the unfairness and cruelty in rejecting a loving parent.

Make the child aware that they may lose a good parent if the process of alienation continues.

Passivity and tolerance are ineffective when dealing with parental alienation. What is required is confrontation of a very powerful type in order to counteract the effects of the alienation and to reverse it.

(source: http://www.parental-alienation.info/publications/24-sigofparalisynandhowtocouitseff.htm)


Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 15:18     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?


You need serious counseling. It's clear why you are divorced.

You have the inability to see how your actions have consequences and you are always blaming others outside of yourself for your predicament.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 15:15     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 15:03     Subject: Re:How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
You never manipulate a child with money or affection and you don't manipulate a child by withholding money and affection.

Parenting 101.

You need a family counselor because you are not accepting your part in the scenarios and you are letting emotions override logic.

You give kids food, education, clothing and physical activities because you are her parent, not in exchange for your pride to be stroked.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:59     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I was not clear. The child has responsibility, yes, but she is also under her mother's sway. So she's not a free actor, but neither is she without independent judgement.

I also did not mean to equate what I do for her as tit for tat in terms of time. We have a great time together, do activities, etc. But because I have more resources, and because I am not incredibly bitter and angry like her mother, I have gone out of my way to make her life more fun and livable at BOTH houses. I was the one who found and arranged her favorite activity. I have been the one to buy her things for both houses, rather than just have the "cool" stuff here.


Doing activities is not parenting. You don't need to buy for both houses. Mom should be buying for her house, you for your house. If she doesn't want to be with you, and Mom is saying don't go or supporting it, then its on Mom. Could it be a child support issue? Mom wants daughter full-time to get more child support (or get child support).
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:59     Subject: Re:How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Is she spending time with YOU when she did visit or is it some random women and her children also?
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:58     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ex is manipulating DD to stay with her instead of me (we have been doing 50/50). DD is experiencing some emotional issues that are being exacerbated by her mom.

My question is what did you do with the child in the middle. She is 14 and while certainly not an independent decisionmaker, she is capable of making decisions and thinking about consequences. I am torn between letting her realize the consequences of her actions (i.e., if you want to basically cut me out of your life and only see me for brief visits, I will keep loving you, but your mom can provide everything like rides to activities, funding for activities, gifts, etc.) versus simply taking it (i.e., I will keep loving you and even though you don't want to live with me I will keep doing these things).

Letting her stay with her mom while continuing to support her with rides and funding seems almost like a reward for this behavior. Obviously she is not 100% to blame because she is under her mother's sway...but she has to realize her actions have consequences...right?

I'm lost. Besides being heartbroken.


My parents divorced when I was 12.

My dad was like you in that he felt that paying for things was linked to spending time with him. He made it very clear that if I wanted him to help pay for things like sports and clothes, I had to spend time with him. He did absolutely nothing to make me WANT to spend time with him.

The appropriate solution to your problem is to build a stronger relationship with your daughter. If she wants to spend the majority of her time with her mom, figure out why that is, and try to address the causes, rather than making your relationship with her entirely transactional.


So, you think its ok as a child to treat a parent poorly and refuse to see them but yet pay for things like sports and clothing which are extras on top of child support. Sometimes its not as simple as building a stronger relationship. Mom is clear to child that she does not want contact with other parent. Child is with Mom, so does't have a choice. Mom can pay for sports and clothing out of her income and child support if child doesn't want to spend time with Dad and she supports it. Ever consider how your Dad felt when you were only using him for money?


I have a great relationship with my dad as an adult, thanks for your fake concern.

I think that if you are so heartbroken about the way that your daughter is treating you, then you need to figure out what her actual problem is. You've said a lot about what your ex wants and how she is using your daughter as a pawn to hurt you. Maybe your daughter is upset because her divorced parents are using her to hurt each other. Maybe she'd appreciate you if you simply provided the stuff that parents provide.

I guess my point is that if your daughter doesn't want to split 50/50 anymore, you should have a conversation with her about that. What does she need? What is the problem? My parents did 50/50 and it was pretty stressful going between houses. I wanted to be in one place. I also didn't want 100% of my time with my dad to be on the weekend because I had stuff I wanted to do with my friends on the weekend as well. We compromised on dinners with dad several nights a week, but I always slept at my mom's house. I had a room at dad's and was welcome there, but when, at age 15, I told my parents that the switching back and forth was too stressful, what I really wanted was for them to understand my perspective in the whole thing and work with me to figure out something that worked.

From what you've said about your situation, it sounds like one thing you can count on is that your ex will NOT do that. Maybe consider being the parent who doesn't try to put your kid in the middle.


You sound very selfish.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:56     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
OP here. I guess I was not clear. The child has responsibility, yes, but she is also under her mother's sway. So she's not a free actor, but neither is she without independent judgement.

I also did not mean to equate what I do for her as tit for tat in terms of time. We have a great time together, do activities, etc. But because I have more resources, and because I am not incredibly bitter and angry like her mother, I have gone out of my way to make her life more fun and livable at BOTH houses. I was the one who found and arranged her favorite activity. I have been the one to buy her things for both houses, rather than just have the "cool" stuff here.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:53     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ex is manipulating DD to stay with her instead of me (we have been doing 50/50). DD is experiencing some emotional issues that are being exacerbated by her mom.

My question is what did you do with the child in the middle. She is 14 and while certainly not an independent decisionmaker, she is capable of making decisions and thinking about consequences. I am torn between letting her realize the consequences of her actions (i.e., if you want to basically cut me out of your life and only see me for brief visits, I will keep loving you, but your mom can provide everything like rides to activities, funding for activities, gifts, etc.) versus simply taking it (i.e., I will keep loving you and even though you don't want to live with me I will keep doing these things).

Letting her stay with her mom while continuing to support her with rides and funding seems almost like a reward for this behavior. Obviously she is not 100% to blame because she is under her mother's sway...but she has to realize her actions have consequences...right?

I'm lost. Besides being heartbroken.


My parents divorced when I was 12.

My dad was like you in that he felt that paying for things was linked to spending time with him. He made it very clear that if I wanted him to help pay for things like sports and clothes, I had to spend time with him. He did absolutely nothing to make me WANT to spend time with him.

The appropriate solution to your problem is to build a stronger relationship with your daughter. If she wants to spend the majority of her time with her mom, figure out why that is, and try to address the causes, rather than making your relationship with her entirely transactional.


So, you think its ok as a child to treat a parent poorly and refuse to see them but yet pay for things like sports and clothing which are extras on top of child support. Sometimes its not as simple as building a stronger relationship. Mom is clear to child that she does not want contact with other parent. Child is with Mom, so does't have a choice. Mom can pay for sports and clothing out of her income and child support if child doesn't want to spend time with Dad and she supports it. Ever consider how your Dad felt when you were only using him for money?


I have a great relationship with my dad as an adult, thanks for your fake concern.

I think that if you are so heartbroken about the way that your daughter is treating you, then you need to figure out what her actual problem is. You've said a lot about what your ex wants and how she is using your daughter as a pawn to hurt you. Maybe your daughter is upset because her divorced parents are using her to hurt each other. Maybe she'd appreciate you if you simply provided the stuff that parents provide.

I guess my point is that if your daughter doesn't want to split 50/50 anymore, you should have a conversation with her about that. What does she need? What is the problem? My parents did 50/50 and it was pretty stressful going between houses. I wanted to be in one place. I also didn't want 100% of my time with my dad to be on the weekend because I had stuff I wanted to do with my friends on the weekend as well. We compromised on dinners with dad several nights a week, but I always slept at my mom's house. I had a room at dad's and was welcome there, but when, at age 15, I told my parents that the switching back and forth was too stressful, what I really wanted was for them to understand my perspective in the whole thing and work with me to figure out something that worked.

From what you've said about your situation, it sounds like one thing you can count on is that your ex will NOT do that. Maybe consider being the parent who doesn't try to put your kid in the middle.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:49     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:Ex is manipulating DD to stay with her instead of me (we have been doing 50/50). DD is experiencing some emotional issues that are being exacerbated by her mom.

My question is what did you do with the child in the middle. She is 14 and while certainly not an independent decisionmaker, she is capable of making decisions and thinking about consequences. I am torn between letting her realize the consequences of her actions (i.e., if you want to basically cut me out of your life and only see me for brief visits, I will keep loving you, but your mom can provide everything like rides to activities, funding for activities, gifts, etc.) versus simply taking it (i.e., I will keep loving you and even though you don't want to live with me I will keep doing these things).

Letting her stay with her mom while continuing to support her with rides and funding seems almost like a reward for this behavior. Obviously she is not 100% to blame because she is under her mother's sway...but she has to realize her actions have consequences...right?

I'm lost. Besides being heartbroken.


Don't give up your parenting time and get into joint counseling on your time. She isn't going to realize her actions and if she does, Mom is such a strong force that she may not be able to compete. Provide everything on your time and on Mom's time Mom does those things. If she refuses visits, then I would not give her rides or give her extra money. Mom can do those things if she's living with Mom. You can take it to court but at 14, not really much you can do. Try dealing with Mom directly, but its probably hopeless.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:47     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ex is manipulating DD to stay with her instead of me (we have been doing 50/50). DD is experiencing some emotional issues that are being exacerbated by her mom.

My question is what did you do with the child in the middle. She is 14 and while certainly not an independent decisionmaker, she is capable of making decisions and thinking about consequences. I am torn between letting her realize the consequences of her actions (i.e., if you want to basically cut me out of your life and only see me for brief visits, I will keep loving you, but your mom can provide everything like rides to activities, funding for activities, gifts, etc.) versus simply taking it (i.e., I will keep loving you and even though you don't want to live with me I will keep doing these things).

Letting her stay with her mom while continuing to support her with rides and funding seems almost like a reward for this behavior. Obviously she is not 100% to blame because she is under her mother's sway...but she has to realize her actions have consequences...right?

I'm lost. Besides being heartbroken.


My parents divorced when I was 12.

My dad was like you in that he felt that paying for things was linked to spending time with him. He made it very clear that if I wanted him to help pay for things like sports and clothes, I had to spend time with him. He did absolutely nothing to make me WANT to spend time with him.

The appropriate solution to your problem is to build a stronger relationship with your daughter. If she wants to spend the majority of her time with her mom, figure out why that is, and try to address the causes, rather than making your relationship with her entirely transactional.


So, you think its ok as a child to treat a parent poorly and refuse to see them but yet pay for things like sports and clothing which are extras on top of child support. Sometimes its not as simple as building a stronger relationship. Mom is clear to child that she does not want contact with other parent. Child is with Mom, so does't have a choice. Mom can pay for sports and clothing out of her income and child support if child doesn't want to spend time with Dad and she supports it. Ever consider how your Dad felt when you were only using him for money?
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:46     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ex is manipulating DD to stay with her instead of me (we have been doing 50/50). DD is experiencing some emotional issues that are being exacerbated by her mom.

My question is what did you do with the child in the middle. She is 14 and while certainly not an independent decisionmaker, she is capable of making decisions and thinking about consequences. I am torn between letting her realize the consequences of her actions (i.e., if you want to basically cut me out of your life and only see me for brief visits, I will keep loving you, but your mom can provide everything like rides to activities, funding for activities, gifts, etc.) versus simply taking it (i.e., I will keep loving you and even though you don't want to live with me I will keep doing these things).

Letting her stay with her mom while continuing to support her with rides and funding seems almost like a reward for this behavior. Obviously she is not 100% to blame because she is under her mother's sway...but she has to realize her actions have consequences...right?

I'm lost. Besides being heartbroken.


My parents divorced when I was 12.

My dad was like you in that he felt that paying for things was linked to spending time with him. He made it very clear that if I wanted him to help pay for things like sports and clothes, I had to spend time with him. He did absolutely nothing to make me WANT to spend time with him.

The appropriate solution to your problem is to build a stronger relationship with your daughter. If she wants to spend the majority of her time with her mom, figure out why that is, and try to address the causes, rather than making your relationship with her entirely transactional.


So, you think its ok as a child to treat a parent poorly and refuse to see them but yet pay for things like sports and clothing which are extras on top of child support. Sometimes its not as simple as building a stronger relationship. Mom is clear to child that she does not want contact with other parent. Child is with Mom, so does't have a choice. Mom can pay for sports and clothing out of her income and child support if child doesn't want to spend time with Dad and she supports it. Ever consider how your Dad felt when you were only using him for money?
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:43     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Anonymous wrote:Ex is manipulating DD to stay with her instead of me (we have been doing 50/50). DD is experiencing some emotional issues that are being exacerbated by her mom.

My question is what did you do with the child in the middle. She is 14 and while certainly not an independent decisionmaker, she is capable of making decisions and thinking about consequences. I am torn between letting her realize the consequences of her actions (i.e., if you want to basically cut me out of your life and only see me for brief visits, I will keep loving you, but your mom can provide everything like rides to activities, funding for activities, gifts, etc.) versus simply taking it (i.e., I will keep loving you and even though you don't want to live with me I will keep doing these things).

Letting her stay with her mom while continuing to support her with rides and funding seems almost like a reward for this behavior. Obviously she is not 100% to blame because she is under her mother's sway...but she has to realize her actions have consequences...right?

I'm lost. Besides being heartbroken.


My parents divorced when I was 12.

My dad was like you in that he felt that paying for things was linked to spending time with him. He made it very clear that if I wanted him to help pay for things like sports and clothes, I had to spend time with him. He did absolutely nothing to make me WANT to spend time with him.

The appropriate solution to your problem is to build a stronger relationship with your daughter. If she wants to spend the majority of her time with her mom, figure out why that is, and try to address the causes, rather than making your relationship with her entirely transactional.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:37     Subject: Re:How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
You say she's 100% not responsible, and then you say she needs to realize her behavior has consequences. That makes no sense.

The only time you're seeing her is if you give her rides, and you want to take away those rides as a punishment? Hoping it will make her see that her mom is wrong when she maligns you? Do you realize how illogical this is?

Continue to be there for your daughter as much as you can. Don't let the other parent down to their level, and don't punish the innocent child in all this.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2017 14:34     Subject: How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?
Ex is manipulating DD to stay with her instead of me (we have been doing 50/50). DD is experiencing some emotional issues that are being exacerbated by her mom.

My question is what did you do with the child in the middle. She is 14 and while certainly not an independent decisionmaker, she is capable of making decisions and thinking about consequences. I am torn between letting her realize the consequences of her actions (i.e., if you want to basically cut me out of your life and only see me for brief visits, I will keep loving you, but your mom can provide everything like rides to activities, funding for activities, gifts, etc.) versus simply taking it (i.e., I will keep loving you and even though you don't want to live with me I will keep doing these things).

Letting her stay with her mom while continuing to support her with rides and funding seems almost like a reward for this behavior. Obviously she is not 100% to blame because she is under her mother's sway...but she has to realize her actions have consequences...right?

I'm lost. Besides being heartbroken.