Anonymous wrote:OP here, sorry, but I'm unimpressed with this year's results for DC public. My spouse and I, and our two siblings, were NMSS, in schools ranked in the bottom third in our respective states. We were bookworms who enjoyed doing math, certainly not geniuses. The PSAT just isn't very hard, at least not for kids who ready widely for pleasure, and pay attention in algebra, geometry and trig classes.

Things were really looking up last year, when Walls had 5 NMSS. Disappointing to see that number back down to the norm, 1 or 2.

BASIS is starting to keep stronger students for HS. This is partly because of the crappy way Walls has been treating the highest-performing BASIS 9th graders, making them repeat humanities classes they aced in MS. Sort it out, DCPS and DCPC.

The chancellor visited Basis last week - part of an effort to promote collaboration, not just competition. Maybe that issue was discussed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Note: 1% of PSAT takers nationwide become NMSS.

At Wilson, roughly .2% of the juniors cleared the bar this year.

NMSF is aimed at the top .5% per state.

I thought DC is automatically assigned the cut off of the highest state (usually NJ) without regard to the number of DC students.

11th graders in DC schools last year:

DCPS:2717
PCS: 1266
Private:1437 (est. from 21 private schools with high school grades in DC)

So roughly 5420 eleventh graders in DC schools last year (no data on how many took the test though). So the top .5% would have allowed DC 271 NMSF, but since we are locked with the score of the top state, we only got 39 which is only the top .007%.

OP here, sorry, but I'm unimpressed with this year's results for DC public. My spouse and I, and our two siblings, were NMSS, in schools ranked in the bottom third in our respective states. We were bookworms who enjoyed doing math, certainly not geniuses. The PSAT just isn't very hard, at least not for kids who ready widely for pleasure, and pay attention in algebra, geometry and trig classes.

Things were really looking up last year, when Walls had 5 NMSS. Disappointing to see that number back down to the norm, 1 or 2.

BASIS is starting to keep stronger students for HS. This is partly because of the crappy way Walls has been treating the highest-performing BASIS 9th graders, making them repeat humanities classes they aced in MS. Sort it out, DCPS and DCPC.

Anonymous wrote:Note: 1% of PSAT takers nationwide become NMSS.

At Wilson, roughly .2% of the juniors cleared the bar this year.

NMSF is aimed at the top .5% per state.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is really competing on an uneven playing field here. I'm not sure there is much that DC public schools can do to change these numbers in a system that is rigged against them.

Students are scored where they go to school, not where they live. So every student at the top private schools here is competing in DC. DC has the highest cutoff score to qualify as a NM scholar in the nation.

As a population, these kids in private school make up a substantial number of high-achieving high school juniors in the District. If there was a northern Virginia cut-off score, or a Manhattan one, or a Boston one, the distribution of those areas might be different. But DC public school students are competing directly with a whole lot of elite private school students in a system where the number of available "slots" is small because DC is a dense, small urban place.

OP. True to some extent, but I'm hearing excuses in the mix. DCPS has complained to the College Board along these lines since the NMSS was established. Your arguments whitewash impediments to student achievement at the high end in both DCPS and DCPC. The fact is that our parallel school systems DCPS reject formal GT programming for ES and MS in a city that hasn't bothered to pass a law on GT education. MD and VA passed such laws in the 80s.

The reality is that about the only above grade-level classes in the system before 10th grade teach math, and science at BASIS. Now we've got "honors for all" in 9th grade at Wilson, which isn't helpful. Moreover, the percentage of white students at Walls has been kept roughly constant for more than 20 years, even as the number of white applicants has more than doubled in that timeframe. Applications to Boston Latin, TJ and the NYC magnets don't include an interview, which can be used to identify minority applicants; Walls requires an interview.

If we had GT, we'd almost certainly have more NMSS. Not boatloads more, but more. Those "elite DC private school students" often WERE DCPS students at the ES level. They went to JKLM schools, Oyster, Brent etc. DCPS still loses most of the strongest ES students along the way because our school system doesn't meet their needs well after elementary school. I'm not a BASIS booster, but I'd wager than within five years, that program will be producing more NMSS than the other DC public schools combined.

Really? Despite the massive homework load at Basis and its emphasis on testing, their percentage of students who tested at level 5 in English this year (PARCC) was 11.9%*, much lower than at Deal (29.3%), Latin (24.5%), and DC International charter (17.2%), and not much better than Hardy (10.7%), a school that still loses a lot of students to Basis. In math, Basis did have the most score at level 5, but counting levels 4+5, Deal and Latin both came within a few percentage points of Basis (Basis 59%, Deal 55%, Latin 53%).

Keeping in mind that Basis is all about the test scores per their mission, my takeaway is that their tactics and philosophy actually aren't producing scores all that much better than the other higher-scoring DCPS charter and middle schools.

Basis has the additional problem that many kids who can go to Wilson or get into Walls/Banneker flee Basis. Even if they eventually do start to show big gains for middle schoolers, many kids will leave for high school in order to have a more well-rounded experience at a bigger school.

*all numbers from the Northwest Current https://currentnewspapers.com/city-sees-continued-parcc-progress-as-gaps-remain/

If we're talking NMSS and BASIS (and comparing to SWW) you need to look at their high school numbers -- not the school-wide numbers.

42% of 10th graders got 5 in math (the integrated math test -- diff than DCPS)
35% of 10th graders got 5 in ELA

(71% proficient or advanced on ELA; 75% proficient or advanced on math)

However I disagree with the OP about it being the NMSS incubator in a few years and agree with the PP.

From learndc.org

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is really competing on an uneven playing field here. I'm not sure there is much that DC public schools can do to change these numbers in a system that is rigged against them.

Students are scored where they go to school, not where they live. So every student at the top private schools here is competing in DC. DC has the highest cutoff score to qualify as a NM scholar in the nation.

As a population, these kids in private school make up a substantial number of high-achieving high school juniors in the District. If there was a northern Virginia cut-off score, or a Manhattan one, or a Boston one, the distribution of those areas might be different. But DC public school students are competing directly with a whole lot of elite private school students in a system where the number of available "slots" is small because DC is a dense, small urban place.

OP. True to some extent, but I'm hearing excuses in the mix. DCPS has complained to the College Board along these lines since the NMSS was established. Your arguments whitewash impediments to student achievement at the high end in both DCPS and DCPC. The fact is that our parallel school systems DCPS reject formal GT programming for ES and MS in a city that hasn't bothered to pass a law on GT education. MD and VA passed such laws in the 80s.

The reality is that about the only above grade-level classes in the system before 10th grade teach math, and science at BASIS. Now we've got "honors for all" in 9th grade at Wilson, which isn't helpful. Moreover, the percentage of white students at Walls has been kept roughly constant for more than 20 years, even as the number of white applicants has more than doubled in that timeframe. Applications to Boston Latin, TJ and the NYC magnets don't include an interview, which can be used to identify minority applicants; Walls requires an interview.

If we had GT, we'd almost certainly have more NMSS. Not boatloads more, but more. Those "elite DC private school students" often WERE DCPS students at the ES level. They went to JKLM schools, Oyster, Brent etc. DCPS still loses most of the strongest ES students along the way because our school system doesn't meet their needs well after elementary school. I'm not a BASIS booster, but I'd wager than within five years, that program will be producing more NMSS than the other DC public schools combined.

Really? Despite the massive homework load at Basis and its emphasis on testing, their percentage of students who tested at level 5 in English this year (PARCC) was 11.9%*, much lower than at Deal (29.3%), Latin (24.5%), and DC International charter (17.2%), and not much better than Hardy (10.7%), a school that still loses a lot of students to Basis. In math, Basis did have the most score at level 5, but counting levels 4+5, Deal and Latin both came within a few percentage points of Basis (Basis 59%, Deal 55%, Latin 53%).

Keeping in mind that Basis is all about the test scores per their mission, my takeaway is that their tactics and philosophy actually aren't producing scores all that much better than the other higher-scoring DCPS charter and middle schools.

Basis has the additional problem that many kids who can go to Wilson or get into Walls/Banneker flee Basis. Even if they eventually do start to show big gains for middle schoolers, many kids will leave for high school in order to have a more well-rounded experience at a bigger school.

*all numbers from the Northwest Current https://currentnewspapers.com/city-sees-continued-parcc-progress-as-gaps-remain/

Not unless BASIS figures out its English program.

It actually is quite well aligned with the ACT reading and language test. Not so much with the SAT/PSAT.

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is really competing on an uneven playing field here. I'm not sure there is much that DC public schools can do to change these numbers in a system that is rigged against them.

Students are scored where they go to school, not where they live. So every student at the top private schools here is competing in DC. DC has the highest cutoff score to qualify as a NM scholar in the nation.

As a population, these kids in private school make up a substantial number of high-achieving high school juniors in the District. If there was a northern Virginia cut-off score, or a Manhattan one, or a Boston one, the distribution of those areas might be different. But DC public school students are competing directly with a whole lot of elite private school students in a system where the number of available "slots" is small because DC is a dense, small urban place.

OP. True to some extent, but I'm hearing excuses in the mix. DCPS has complained to the College Board along these lines since the NMSS was established. Your arguments whitewash impediments to student achievement at the high end in both DCPS and DCPC. The fact is that our parallel school systems DCPS reject formal GT programming for ES and MS in a city that hasn't bothered to pass a law on GT education. MD and VA passed such laws in the 80s.

The reality is that about the only above grade-level classes in the system before 10th grade teach math, and science at BASIS. Now we've got "honors for all" in 9th grade at Wilson, which isn't helpful. Moreover, the percentage of white students at Walls has been kept roughly constant for more than 20 years, even as the number of white applicants has more than doubled in that timeframe. Applications to Boston Latin, TJ and the NYC magnets don't include an interview, which can be used to identify minority applicants; Walls requires an interview.

If we had GT, we'd almost certainly have more NMSS. Not boatloads more, but more. Those "elite DC private school students" often WERE DCPS students at the ES level. They went to JKLM schools, Oyster, Brent etc. DCPS still loses most of the strongest ES students along the way because our school system doesn't meet their needs well after elementary school. I'm not a BASIS booster, but I'd wager than within five years, that program will be producing more NMSS than the other DC public schools combined.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is really competing on an uneven playing field here. I'm not sure there is much that DC public schools can do to change these numbers in a system that is rigged against them.

Students are scored where they go to school, not where they live. So every student at the top private schools here is competing in DC. DC has the highest cutoff score to qualify as a NM scholar in the nation.

As a population, these kids in private school make up a substantial number of high-achieving high school juniors in the District. If there was a northern Virginia cut-off score, or a Manhattan one, or a Boston one, the distribution of those areas might be different. But DC public school students are competing directly with a whole lot of elite private school students in a system where the number of available "slots" is small because DC is a dense, small urban place.

My child is a DCPS 11th grader who had an extremely high PSAT score in 10th grade...one that, if all other things fall into place, makes it not at all ridiculous for him to apply to MIT, Stanford, etc. In talking to his college counselor (private because so far we have not heard a peep from the school), we were told that he still has almost no chance of clearing the bar to be a semifinalist. It could be a question of getting one or two more questions right, so it's possible, but absolutely not worth prepping for or worrying about.

There are probably dozens of DC kids, in both public and private schools, who almost make it, and their scores are still good enough (again, combined with grades, etc.) to make it into some of the nation's top schools. In fact, if they lived in a state where the cutoff was much lower (Mississippi or South Dakota are examples), all of these kids would be semifinalist shoe-ins. Anyway, this particular honor is really not that big of a deal. Very nice if you can make it, and definite congrats to the kids who did, but not a big deal at all if you come close but don't make it, especially since the scholarship $ tied to the scores is unfortunately nothing to write home about.

Unless your employer gives a scholarship to those who are National Merit Scholarship Semifinalists. [IBM used to - I think they recently changed the guidelines]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is really competing on an uneven playing field here. I'm not sure there is much that DC public schools can do to change these numbers in a system that is rigged against them.

Students are scored where they go to school, not where they live. So every student at the top private schools here is competing in DC. DC has the highest cutoff score to qualify as a NM scholar in the nation.

As a population, these kids in private school make up a substantial number of high-achieving high school juniors in the District. If there was a northern Virginia cut-off score, or a Manhattan one, or a Boston one, the distribution of those areas might be different. But DC public school students are competing directly with a whole lot of elite private school students in a system where the number of available "slots" is small because DC is a dense, small urban place.

My child is a DCPS 11th grader who had an extremely high PSAT score in 10th grade...one that, if all other things fall into place, makes it not at all ridiculous for him to apply to MIT, Stanford, etc. In talking to his college counselor (private because so far we have not heard a peep from the school), we were told that he still has almost no chance of clearing the bar to be a semifinalist. It could be a question of getting one or two more questions right, so it's possible, but absolutely not worth prepping for or worrying about.

There are probably dozens of DC kids, in both public and private schools, who almost make it, and their scores are still good enough (again, combined with grades, etc.) to make it into some of the nation's top schools. In fact, if they lived in a state where the cutoff was much lower (Mississippi or South Dakota are examples), all of these kids would be semifinalist shoe-ins. Anyway, this particular honor is really not that big of a deal. Very nice if you can make it, and definite congrats to the kids who did, but not a big deal at all if you come close but don't make it, especially since the scholarship $ tied to the scores is unfortunately nothing to write home about.

The graduating class of 2018 is the first group of seniors who were babies when the DC lead in water crisis was disclosed.

DCPS is really competing on an uneven playing field here. I'm not sure there is much that DC public schools can do to change these numbers in a system that is rigged against them.

Students are scored where they go to school, not where they live. So every student at the top private schools here is competing in DC. DC has the highest cutoff score to qualify as a NM scholar in the nation.

As a population, these kids in private school make up a substantial number of high-achieving high school juniors in the District. If there was a northern Virginia cut-off score, or a Manhattan one, or a Boston one, the distribution of those areas might be different. But DC public school students are competing directly with a whole lot of elite private school students in a system where the number of available "slots" is small because DC is a dense, small urban place.

Note: 1% of PSAT takers nationwide become NMSS.

At Wilson, roughly .2% of the juniors cleared the bar this year.

Last year, there were DC 46 NMSS, ten more than this year. That's quite a drop without the DC PSAT cutoff score having risen.

The list of this year's 36 DC NMSS by school is a bit interesting. I note that TJ has produced 145 semifinalists this year, almost 1/3 of their junior class.

Georgetown Day: 8
Georgetown Prep: 1
Maret: 2
National Cathedral School: 4
SWS: 2 (down from 5 last year, an all-time high)
Sidwell: 11
St. Albans: 7
St. Johns: 1
Wilson: 1 (up from zero last year, Wilson normally produces 1 or 2)
Washington Latin: 0 (they had their first last year)

https://patch.com/district-columbia/washingtondc/36-dc-students-named-national-merit-semifinalists

DCPS and DCPC can do better on this metric. I see the middle school test-in magnet programs deficit in this list, along with the problem of the system failing to offer above-grade-level middle school humanities classes in both DCPS and DCPC. Hello, we can't produce many NMSS on a foundation of middle school math acceleration alone. In-class differentiation for middle school humanities subjects isn't cutting it.