Dh and I have lived really really poor, and we have lived middle class (now).

One thing we noticed when we were poor is that there are opportunities to be wiser with money when you have more to spend.

For example:
In a given month, I might run out of paper towels, dish soap, and diapers. I stop by Walmart but I only have $25 to spend. -A big box of Luvs diapers costs 19.79+tax.
-I see there's a two pack of paper towels for 2.50, and if my budget were larger, I could spend $12.50 and be set for 6 months... but I don't have that 12.50.
-same with dish soap, I buy the smallest/cheapest bottle and it's 1.19.

At checkout it comes out to 25.24 including tax. Whew! So glad it was basically just $25.

Because I didn't have an extra 10-15 in the budget, im *back in the same spot next month.* next month I still need paper towels, diapers. I don't need soap but I need laundry detergent and a $5-10 gift for my child's best friend. So I have to go over $25 budget and cut into my grocery bill.

Every month is like that.

Again, when you're poor, you notice that if you just had $20 more here and there, you'd be able to make better decisions with money--buying in bulk at a better unit price. Or choosing detergent that actually works (saving your clothes from stains and so you don't have to replace your work-shirt).

On and on.

There is certainly an element of this though. Both rich and poor people- if you don't have any money despite working full time, you have to be mismanaging somewhere. If you are seriously not making enough due to a low wage position, that's what welfare is for. If you are just above the welfare threshold, but still not making ends meet I can see how that would be hard-- but still, you should technically be able to afford your COL (this is assuming that gov does their job as far as figuring out when people can get basic needs on their own... I doubt they're good at that, but I'm saying there has to be a cut off point and it sucks when you're right past that point of no longer being eligible for help.)

But it does drive me crazy to see people complaining about not having money while they text on their new iPhone, smoke cigarettes, etc. Totally agree with PP who said that these communities tend to have a culture that perpetuates these problems. It's sad, but if parents/family don't recognize the importance of trying for more and pushing their kids to do that by modeling achieving their own goals and making sacrifices how could you possibly expect a 16 year old to?


An example of poor people just being bad at managing money- lottery winners. People who suddenly gain wealth often mismanage it and end up broke anyway. This is obviously an extreme example, but it exists.

Anonymous wrote:I don't feel bad for the rich people making millions. Do people actually feel bad for them?

x10000

My favorite is the people who have a lot of money, and pretend they blend in with the normal, every day people (known here as the poors). Hate to tell you, the poors are the majority folks - and we are not going anywhere.

Lots of people of all wealth ranges are poor money managers. See the "struggling on 400K a year" threads.

I grew up poor and one of the key things that helped me get out was that my parents taught me good money management. That's a gift and I realize it.

But I do get annoyed when I see poor people who do things like smoke a pack a day, buy expensive drugs, have all the latest electronics and game systems, and then complain they can't pay their rent or buy food for their kids. My brother is a teacher in Appalachia and sees it all the time. Mostly I complain because I'm mad for the kids as the parents do nothing to help them escape the cycle of poverty. I don't expect them to be perfect but I do expect their not to be completely and utterly irresponsible over and over.

Bad money management is not a poor people issue. It is an American consumerism issue.

78% of people in the US are now paycheck-to-paycheck.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/most-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html

I counted, and exactly 0 people feel bad for people who used to make millions of dollars a year but spent it all on luxury cars and houses. OP, are you high?

Anonymous wrote:Some poor people are poor money managers. But some poor people just don't have enough money to really manage it, period. If you are literally down to your last $5 every month, I don't really expect you to save it.

Not to mention, being poor can be expensive. For example, you can't afford to buy the high-quality thing that costs more, so you buy the cheaper things but have to replace them more often, so it's more expensive in the long-term. You buy a cheaper car that requires more repairs or gets worse gas mileage. And often getting things really cheap requires more time, which is also something that is often in short supply.

And your savings are really vulnerable--your car breaks down or you get a flat tire, your kid gets sick or hits a growth spurt and needs new clothes, your washing machine breaks, and suddenly your meager savings are wiped out.

We expect poor people to be perfect money managers and never splurge or buy anything they don't absolutely need and always buy used, etc., and then we act like they are moral failures if they don't. Rich people are often not such great managers, but because they have more of a cushion their mistakes don't hurt them the same way.

Anonymous wrote:Family planning would help many poor people. Free birth control would be helpful, but people
Have to use it. They won't.

Many of my former students got pregnant (many have admitted on purpose) in HS. They come from poor families and often have very large families. My co-worker holds support groups for them and this is where she learns about them. These are mostly Hispanic students BTW. They admit to having babies because 1) this is what girls in their culture do 2) they want something of their own. None of these girls have aspirations for college so having a baby at 16 isn't a tragedy for them. They say that they are expected to be mothers and that's it. When asked why they keep having babies when they cannot afford them, they say that if a Hispanic girl has just one baby, people think there is something wrong with them. Like they physically cannot have any more kids and they are seen as "broken." The moms of my students keep having baby after baby because they are expected to have large families. So like a PP mentioned, free birth control for people who don't want it is pointless. When the girls have no future anyway, why not get started on what they are supposed to do. Again, none of this is what I think. This is what the young girls talk about during their group sessions.

Family planning would help many poor people. Free birth control would be helpful, but people
Have to use it. They won't.

Some poor people are poor money managers. But some poor people just don't have enough money to really manage it, period. If you are literally down to your last $5 every month, I don't really expect you to save it.

But if you are paying your rent late and saving nothing for retirement because you're out partying and going to concerts and sporting events and getting professional manicures and have the newest $700 iPhone, I sure as hell am going to judge you for your money management. (I know someone who fits this description.)

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that society always looks at working poor people as lazy or bad when they don't have savings. I actually expect someone who lives paycheck to paycheck to not have a fat savings account. If you have $5 at the end of the month after paying all the bills, you probably deserve a treat with that $5 instead of putting it in savings, my question is why don't we judge rich people who suck at managing money as harshly? I have a relative who was rich and every penny he got he spent on vacations, cars and houses and now he has nothing and he's living paycheck to paycheck. He and his wife are Adkin for donations so that they can keep their luxury car and house. On the flipside, I have a relative who is a single mom who has been working her butt off to take care of her kid and I have no problem giving her a donation because she actually needs it. You can't save money when your income just covers everything that you have to pay for. But I honestly don't understand we feel so bad for these rich people who were making millions of dollars a year and didn't have the forethought to save a dime of it.

But this is part of the problem and mindset. And when you're used to treating yourself with your last $5, you get used to treating yourself with your last $200 too. There is a lot of conspicuous consumption to make yourself feel better about your situation.

I'm not someone who looks down on the poor though.

I've met a lot of rich people who looked rich from the outside, but were really living on maxed out credit cards. That's especially common in this area where image is important and people tend to buy too much house or cars that are out of their budget to impress.

A good friend's husband is in prison for "white collar crime." She told everyone his team made a mistake at work and is taking the fall. Everyone gave her sympathy, of course, the poor dear. But the truth is that he opened credit cards in his 6 year old son's name & SSN and maxed them out on vacations to Italy an Prague. I know the truth because of my job, but I let her live in her happy lie.

Yes and then the wealthy throw around phrases like "the life to which we have become accustomed" when they are told to cut expenses.

I don't feel bad for the rich people making millions. Do people actually feel bad for them?

Why is it that society always looks at working poor people as lazy or bad when they don't have savings. I actually expect someone who lives paycheck to paycheck to not have a fat savings account. If you have $5 at the end of the month after paying all the bills, you probably deserve a treat with that $5 instead of putting it in savings, my question is why don't we judge rich people who suck at managing money as harshly? I have a relative who was rich and every penny he got he spent on vacations, cars and houses and now he has nothing and he's living paycheck to paycheck. He and his wife are Adkin for donations so that they can keep their luxury car and house. On the flipside, I have a relative who is a single mom who has been working her butt off to take care of her kid and I have no problem giving her a donation because she actually needs it. You can't save money when your income just covers everything that you have to pay for. But I honestly don't understand we feel so bad for these rich people who were making millions of dollars a year and didn't have the forethought to save a dime of it.