Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a very stable UMC family (grandparents were UMC, parents were UMC, I went to law school and was on my way to being UMC).

Then I bought into the "love is blind" crap and married someone who grew up poor, but through loans and scholarships put himself through law school, and secured a good job (not big law, but decent six figure income).

He has horrible, ingrained financial habits, that despite our high combined income (we make about the same amount of money), are tanking us financially.

I feel so stupid and ashamed.

Like what? Why don't you do 100% of the money management?

Because he won't let me. He took out credit cards in both of our names without telling me, and ran up about $40k in debt. I found out about them in April when I checked my credit report. He borrowed $50k against his 401k without telling me. He withheld his taxes as if he was head of household with three exemptions, and I didn't find out until I went to do our taxes. If there is money in the account, he spends it.

I have created a scorched earth budget to pay off the cc debt by the end of the year (I used savings to cover the tax bill), but I am afraid that when I pay them off, he will run them up again.

He will not discuss this with me, and he will not go to counseling. It is a nightmare.

Familiar story. Good luck. It sucks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a very stable UMC family (grandparents were UMC, parents were UMC, I went to law school and was on my way to being UMC).

Then I bought into the "love is blind" crap and married someone who grew up poor, but through loans and scholarships put himself through law school, and secured a good job (not big law, but decent six figure income).

He has horrible, ingrained financial habits, that despite our high combined income (we make about the same amount of money), are tanking us financially.

I feel so stupid and ashamed.

Like what? Why don't you do 100% of the money management?

Because he won't let me. He took out credit cards in both of our names without telling me, and ran up about $40k in debt. I found out about them in April when I checked my credit report. He borrowed $50k against his 401k without telling me. He withheld his taxes as if he was head of household with three exemptions, and I didn't find out until I went to do our taxes. If there is money in the account, he spends it.

I have created a scorched earth budget to pay off the cc debt by the end of the year (I used savings to cover the tax bill), but I am afraid that when I pay them off, he will run them up again.

He will not discuss this with me, and he will not go to counseling. It is a nightmare.

I am so sorry to hear this. In DC, at least, not sure about other states, you can formally file for separate finances while staying legally married. I would look into this if I were you, especially because you worry he has not had a change of heart. Good luck to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a very stable UMC family (grandparents were UMC, parents were UMC, I went to law school and was on my way to being UMC).

Then I bought into the "love is blind" crap and married someone who grew up poor, but through loans and scholarships put himself through law school, and secured a good job (not big law, but decent six figure income).

He has horrible, ingrained financial habits, that despite our high combined income (we make about the same amount of money), are tanking us financially.

I feel so stupid and ashamed.

Like what? Why don't you do 100% of the money management?

Because he won't let me. He took out credit cards in both of our names without telling me, and ran up about $40k in debt. I found out about them in April when I checked my credit report. He borrowed $50k against his 401k without telling me. He withheld his taxes as if he was head of household with three exemptions, and I didn't find out until I went to do our taxes. If there is money in the account, he spends it.

I have created a scorched earth budget to pay off the cc debt by the end of the year (I used savings to cover the tax bill), but I am afraid that when I pay them off, he will run them up again.

He will not discuss this with me, and he will not go to counseling. It is a nightmare.

I know friends who have gone through this because their parents lost all their money and UMC lifestyle due to gambling, drinking, and the DH losing a high paying job due to the gambling and drinking. Their life publicly imploded (not dc area). Happened just after their kids graduated from college.

One friend is doing ok; she's married, working in her field, and has kids. She wisely moved to another state ad seems to be doing well, solid middle class lifestyle. Her sibling is not: he inherited the substance abuse problems and even though he had an equally good education he is now in prison.

My brother falls into this category, only in his case it was a deliberate rejection of UMC values and a return to the laboring class lifestyle. He says it's true freedom. How has he survived? By giving up any chance to have children. He knows it would be irresponsible to have kids when he is not willing to work a conventional job, which would give him health insurance and a retirement plan.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a very stable UMC family (grandparents were UMC, parents were UMC, I went to law school and was on my way to being UMC).

Then I bought into the "love is blind" crap and married someone who grew up poor, but through loans and scholarships put himself through law school, and secured a good job (not big law, but decent six figure income).

He has horrible, ingrained financial habits, that despite our high combined income (we make about the same amount of money), are tanking us financially.

I feel so stupid and ashamed.

Like what? Why don't you do 100% of the money management?

My MIL grew up in an affluent, old money, WASPy New England family. She moved to DC after graduating from a HYP school and became pregnant while dating/living with my FIL (15 years older, divorced, different race, poor family, Southern). They married and moved to his home state, where she became involved in non-profit work and was ultimately the breadwinner because my FIL had troubles of his own (they ultimately divorced). DH had a humble upbringing, though his private school and Little Ivy college tuitions were heavily subsidized by his wealthy grandparents.

If anything, I'm grateful because DH and my MIL have what I think is a rare balance: the composure and "polish" (not sure how to say this, as it isn't always the case!) that comes from having UMC roots and elite education, but the humility and thriftiness that come with not having much in terms of tangible wealth or a conspicuous consumption-driven lifestyle. He and his mom also have a sense of humor about "rich people problems" because they know the lifestyle isn't all it's cracked up to be based on the experiences of MIL's siblings and their wealthy spouses. My MIL has diligently saved and regularly contributes to her grandchildren's 529s despite a modest income.

I grew up in a very stable UMC family (grandparents were UMC, parents were UMC, I went to law school and was on my way to being UMC).

Then I bought into the "love is blind" crap and married someone who grew up poor, but through loans and scholarships put himself through law school, and secured a good job (not big law, but decent six figure income).

He has horrible, ingrained financial habits, that despite our high combined income (we make about the same amount of money), are tanking us financially.

I feel so stupid and ashamed.

I think my SIL falls into this category. ILs are educated and socially maybe part of a higher class than they are financially. This is entirely due to really dumb financial decisions by FIL, though they are still pretty well-off overall, and unless they need institutional care toward the end of their lives they will likely leave us a close-to seven figure inheritance.

DH and SIL both had college paid by ILs, and SIL also had grad school paid by them. SIL and BIL are both well-educated (advanced degrees), but their chosen careers don't pay that well and they have further made financial and career decisions that limit their income. There is a very good chance they will not be able to even pay in-state college tuition for their kids.

I don't know how it effects them day-to-day. BIL is from a less wealthy family, so for him it's not likely a difference to how he grew up. SIL has been talking about her kids going into a trade instead of to college, which I think is a respectable life choice but very much represents a decline in social class. I think MIL worries more than SIL about this, and I strongly suspect ILs will pay for niece and nephew to go to college when the time comes.

It happened to a friend due to poor financial decisions by her father. She dealt and is doing just fine, but could care less about re-climbing the social ladder. She's more of the Colorado-crunchy type.

Resilient adults know that their parents success is not their own. They know that regarding others as well. Money or social position.

Anonymous wrote:I have a family member who has fallen. High income father growing up, stay at home mother. So they lived the typical upper middle class life growing up. Private school all the way.

This family member refused to go to college, even though he had a trust fund. He's in sales, now. And that's fine. I myself did not grow up UMC. So I know there is much happiness to be had in working class and middle class. It's just "different."

His lifestyle is very much middle class as opposed to upper middle class. In real life, he seems happy enough. Very mild mannered. But on facebook, he comes across as your stereotypical angry white male. I don't know if these are related somehow.

They will rise back up to upper middle class if they inherit from their families. He has disowned his well-off parents, so we will see how that goes. I don't think they will do it on their own, with four children and one SAHP. They are making different life choices. Very valid life choices. Just not ones conducive to accumulating wealth.

Oh, to me, the biggest thing they are giving up is excellent education for their kids. They are in a very substandard school district. I don't think they will be able to save for all four kids for college.

Secondarily, his vacations changed from Europe growing up, to a week at the beach here in Maryland. This is not as critical as education, IMO, just something "I" would miss. To me, travel is one of the greatest gifts money can buy.

I have a family member who has fallen. High income father growing up, stay at home mother. So they lived the typical upper middle class life growing up. Private school all the way.

This family member refused to go to college, even though he had a trust fund. He's in sales, now. And that's fine. I myself did not grow up UMC. So I know there is much happiness to be had in working class and middle class. It's just "different."

His lifestyle is very much middle class as opposed to upper middle class. In real life, he seems happy enough. Very mild mannered. But on facebook, he comes across as your stereotypical angry white male. I don't know if these are related somehow.

They will rise back up to upper middle class if they inherit from their families. He has disowned his well-off parents, so we will see how that goes. I don't think they will do it on their own, with four children and one SAHP. They are making different life choices. Very valid life choices. Just not ones conducive to accumulating wealth.

Is this your experience OP?

I am interested in life perspectives from people who grew up in wealthy families, but have taken a "fall" . . . maybe not just in income, but in education or socially or whatever. What is it like psychologically to move down the ladder? What adjustments have you made? So many who come on this forum seem to have gone up the ladder, but I wonder about the reverse. Even if this isn't a first hand perspective, do you have close family members or friends who have experienced this and how are they faring? Do you think you or they will climb back up? If so, how?