Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an epidemic among teen girls right now where they say they are trans when really they are either lesbians, or don't connect with women, or don't fit into society's stereotypes.

The media is afraid to report on this because they don't want to be seen as transphobic. So instead all we hear about are the kids who are celebrated for transitioning.

I can name ten kids that I know in real life who think they are trans -- including my own daughter. They learn this from the internet, the media, and each other. It's a bunch of BS. Transgenderism is rare and now it's become a political movement. And our kids are its victims.

Yes! This is an epidemic with my DD and her friends as well.

I think in 20 years there will be a collective "What were we thinking?" moment. And it will be awful for those who've undergone hormone treatments that lead to sterility and other side effects. It's the nature of being a teenager to feel out of step and not belonging. It's rarely truly due to being transgender.

I have a feeling the poster quoted just above me here is one I have had a friendly, constructive dialogue with on another threat about regarding the appropriateness /qualifications of various professionals in the health fields relating to addressing concerns of individuals presenting as trans, questioning, etc. Without resurrecting that discussion here, I would agree that if persons undertook hormone treatments prematurely they could live to regret it and more should be done to ensure that medical professionals are fully informed and so advise their patients of risks/consequences, sequencing. If they live to regret it, that would be strong evidence (not dispositive for reasons to long to post) that they were not trans in the first place.

On the other hand, I find it very unlikely that even with today's culture a person born male will rush to have a penis cut off or born female will rush to have breasts removed if they are questioning, identify as gender fluid, etc. Perhaps there are a few people who go that far and regret it, but I would expect very, very, few. Self-preservation instinct is pretty strong. I have heard of one person who cancelled surgery after it was scheduled expressing doubts. I also know at least two who had surgery and are just amazing, wonderful people thriving with bodies that more closely match their brains.

Being truly transgender is rare - I agree. But I also think it is less rare than once thought as social mores and medical technology have changed.

The trans man in our family identifies as a straight man and dates straight women. Before socially or physically transitioning, he still was attracted to women but never thought of himself as gay. He had no interest in dating gay women before transitioning any more than he did after. Hey, I know it is very hard to wrap one's head around all this at first -- I get it. But once you have someone in your family that you know and love really go through it, it begins to feel comfortable and -- believe it or not -- natural. I say natural because if a person is really trans that you are close to and you see them nearly every day, it starts to become obvious.

It is much tougher when one introduces the notion of gender fluidity into the equation or, put differently, the period of time of "questioning." As a transient phase that is understandable. As a permanent one -- the "non-binary" notion of gender, is more controversial. I think that is actually where the most controversial parts of the political "movement" referenced above arise. In fact, while no one will carry signs critical of anyone else in the LGBT community on Pride Day -- no reason anyone should -- there certainly is disagreement within the community over this issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gender is different from sexual preference.

Gender is how you see yourself. It's fluid. You can identify as male, female, neither, or somewhere in between.

Sexual preference is who you're attracted to. It's also fluid. You can be attracted to men, women, both, neither, or some combo, and preferences can change.

The gender someone identifies as, combined with their sexual preference, would give you info to slap a label on them. I'm a ciswoman who's attracted to men and women. So I'm perceived as a bisexual woman. The people described in the Op identify as male, and are attracted to other males, and should be perceived as gay (trans) men if we need to label them. I put trans in parenthesis because I'm not sure how far they are in their transition and how open they are about it.

This is the best explanation i have come across, it can be confusing for everyone gay, straight, queer whatever. Thanks PP

Thanks PP. it finally clicked with me one day when I noticed my dd cringed when I called her a lesbian. She was born female, and is attracted to females. Lesbian, right? Eh, maybe. The twist is she's gender fluid. So on days she identifies as female, that wouldn't be such a bad label. But on days she identifies as neutral or male, lesbian isn't quite right, because she doesn't feel female. Unlike the OP's example, she isn't trans, so she wouldn't identify as a straight male. She's fluid so it changes. When the topic comes up, she says she is attracted to women and leaves it at that rather than trying to label herself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an epidemic among teen girls right now where they say they are trans when really they are either lesbians, or don't connect with women, or don't fit into society's stereotypes.

The media is afraid to report on this because they don't want to be seen as transphobic. So instead all we hear about are the kids who are celebrated for transitioning.

I can name ten kids that I know in real life who think they are trans -- including my own daughter. They learn this from the internet, the media, and each other. It's a bunch of BS. Transgenderism is rare and now it's become a political movement. And our kids are its victims.

Yes! This is an epidemic with my DD and her friends as well.

I think in 20 years there will be a collective "What were we thinking?" moment. And it will be awful for those who've undergone hormone treatments that lead to sterility and other side effects. It's the nature of being a teenager to feel out of step and not belonging. It's rarely truly due to being transgender.

Honestly, it all seems so numbrilistic. Why does everything need to have a label, and such complicated ones at that? Why can't they just lead whatever life they want? People have been quietly living their own lives for generations, but now we need to laud, discuss and attach long words to every minor variation of life? To what end, exactly?

Anonymous wrote:There is an epidemic among teen girls right now where they say they are trans when really they are either lesbians, or don't connect with women, or don't fit into society's stereotypes.

The media is afraid to report on this because they don't want to be seen as transphobic. So instead all we hear about are the kids who are celebrated for transitioning.

I can name ten kids that I know in real life who think they are trans -- including my own daughter. They learn this from the internet, the media, and each other. It's a bunch of BS. Transgenderism is rare and now it's become a political movement. And our kids are its victims.

Yes! This is an epidemic with my DD and her friends as well.

There is an epidemic among teen girls right now where they say they are trans when really they are either lesbians, or don't connect with women, or don't fit into society's stereotypes.

The media is afraid to report on this because they don't want to be seen as transphobic. So instead all we hear about are the kids who are celebrated for transitioning.

I can name ten kids that I know in real life who think they are trans -- including my own daughter. They learn this from the internet, the media, and each other. It's a bunch of BS. Transgenderism is rare and now it's become a political movement. And our kids are its victims.

When it's an option, you see more young women who don't want to identify as women. Can you blame them? Instead of working to redefine what a woman is, to empower herself and her place in the world, they redefine what gender they identify as. I think it's tragic.

Anonymous wrote:Gender is different from sexual preference.

Gender is how you see yourself. It's fluid. You can identify as male, female, neither, or somewhere in between.

Sexual preference is who you're attracted to. It's also fluid. You can be attracted to men, women, both, neither, or some combo, and preferences can change.

The gender someone identifies as, combined with their sexual preference, would give you info to slap a label on them. I'm a ciswoman who's attracted to men and women. So I'm perceived as a bisexual woman. The people described in the Op identify as male, and are attracted to other males, and should be perceived as gay (trans) men if we need to label them. I put trans in parenthesis because I'm not sure how far they are in their transition and how open they are about it.

This is the best explanation i have come across, it can be confusing for everyone gay, straight, queer whatever. Thanks PP

Gender is different from sexual preference.

Gender is how you see yourself. It's fluid. You can identify as male, female, neither, or somewhere in between.

Sexual preference is who you're attracted to. It's also fluid. You can be attracted to men, women, both, neither, or some combo, and preferences can change.

The gender someone identifies as, combined with their sexual preference, would give you info to slap a label on them. I'm a ciswoman who's attracted to men and women. So I'm perceived as a bisexual woman. The people described in the Op identify as male, and are attracted to other males, and should be perceived as gay (trans) men if we need to label them. I put trans in parenthesis because I'm not sure how far they are in their transition and how open they are about it.

Anonymous wrote:So a girl who likes a boy? What a round about way of liking boys.

No. I don't think. Both identify as Transgender (female to male) and both gay.

They both say transgender gay males.

So female to male and prefers boys.

Anonymous wrote:Is the only salient aspect of your gender your sexual orientation? I didn't think so. It's two separate things -- this person identifies as male (transgender man) and is sexually attracted to men.

It's a girl who likes boys. Groundbreaking.

Is the only salient aspect of your gender your sexual orientation? I didn't think so. It's two separate things -- this person identifies as male (transgender man) and is sexually attracted to men.

I have a female friend who is married to a transwoman. They both identify as lesbians. Same thing. (But with genders switched.)

Teens born female. They are transgender, and identify as gay males.

So... in simpler terms they identify as gay males....?