Anonymous wrote:
Anyone here who was alive during Watergate? Was this the sentiment people had then too?

I was just a child during Watergate, but there are definitely those folks who remember that time and see similarities:

http://www.newsweek.com/john-dean-richard-nixon-donald-trump-610749

"The White House Counsel for former U.S. President Richard Nixon has described the memo written by fired FBI director James Comey as a “smoking gun” and drew parallels between the affair and the Watergate scandal that in 1974 brought down his former boss.

In an interview Tuesday with CNN, John Dean—who served as Nixon’s counsel—likens Comey memo to the so-called “smoking gun tape,” when it was revealed that the former president tried to halt an FBI investigation.

The release of the tape on August 5, 1974, led to a collapse in support for Nixon among Republican lawmakers who until then had refused to back calls for his impeachment. Nixon resigned three days later.

I'm OP. I think what's more disheartening is that no matter what happens, the only real winner here seems to be Putin. I don't know what happened, and I refuse to just swallow everything that conspiracy-theorists like Mensch put out there. But, this election has severely undermined our democracy.

Even in the most charitable view, the media were used as a weapon to tarnish both Clinton and Trump. I think many of the allegations were true, but it doesn't matter. Regardless, the POTUS was going to be severely crippled coming into the election. And it's not just about Clinton and Trump. A staggering number of Republicans polled in the fall of last year were at best uncertain if Obama was born in the US. That's absolutely insane, and it does not bode well for our democracy that (1) people are so willing to believe conspiracies and (2) they were also able to believe a secret non-citizen could have remained in the Oval Office for 8 years. It reflects a distrust of government institutions so deep, I don't know how we can dig our way out of it. Similarly, I no longer have any faith that the Congress will ever act in the best interest of Americans if it hurts politically.

Faith in our democratic government has been completely eroded. Trump-Russia connections are almost secondary at this point. And I don't see any way this can be righted.

Anonymous wrote:This isn't going to blow over, OP. It's not business as usual, or, if this is business as usual, then we need to thoroughly clean house.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/politics/russians-trump-campaign-information/

Firing Trump's SIL isn't going to make this go away. The only person who can resolve this is Mueller.

NP. I don't think Mueller can resolve it either. As a thought experiment, let's pretend that Mueller finds absolute smoking gun evidence of collusion - say a videotape of Jared Kushner and Steve Bannon meeting with Russian agents, working to coordinate their hacks of Clinton campaign members, and plans to relax Russian sanctions in exchange for cash. What's going to happen then? ...

Do you have any slight doubt that Trump will immediately issue them all blanket pardons, and claim that whatever they did was in the ultimate best interest of the country? I'm completely confident he'd do something like that. And so long as Fox "News" parrots that line, I'm betting most of Trump's supporters will continue to support him. Would the Republicans in Congress ever impeach him? Only if it helps them maintain personal power, so probably not.

It's going to take more than one flush to get this turd down. In all likelihood, the only way we get rid of him is the 2020 general election. In the meantime, the most important thing to do is win back the House in 2018, to block as much of his activities as possible.

Anonymous wrote:I think the only ones getting queasy are non-Trump supporters. His base clearly doesn't care.

I don't know about that. 538 has a new article showing a pretty significant decline in the percent of voters who strongly approve of trump, and a slight uptick in those who moderately approve. So, his support is softening.

Anonymous wrote:Follow the money. Question why exit polls are always Democratic, then the R wins. Why does right wing media parrot the points it does?

The exit polls correctly predicted that HRC won the popular vote.

I think the only ones getting queasy are non-Trump supporters. His base clearly doesn't care.

Anonymous wrote:I think the Russians own Trump and that revelation will bring down his presidency before Christmas. The sooner the better -- Pence is a nightmare, but his ascendance will continue to motivate progressives to retake Congress in 2018.

This.

I dislike everything Pence stands for and think he would be a horrid president. But at least I can't see him shoving foreign leaders, insulting our allies on twitter, hiring his family members to be top advisers, and making shady business deals.

Anonymous wrote:I think the Russians own Trump and that revelation will bring down his presidency before Christmas. The sooner the better -- Pence is a nightmare, but his ascendance will continue to motivate progressives to retake Congress in 2018.

Two thoughts: first, there is no way it's just Trump. Second, the. vote. was. hacked.

I think the Russians own Trump and that revelation will bring down his presidency before Christmas. The sooner the better -- Pence is a nightmare, but his ascendance will continue to motivate progressives to retake Congress in 2018.

Anonymous wrote:To be clear up front, I'm not advocating for stopping investigations or denying that there is something shady going on. This is entirely an emotional reaction. Obviously, it's been in the news for a while, and I've been trying to untangle rumors from reality. But increasingly, whatever happened seems like it's about to out...and I don't like what it's revealing about our government and democracy. I mean, much of what's being revealed has been true since before Trump...but I don't feel like I can hold out hope for the counter-narrative that I'm just over-reacting/being hysterical being true anymore.

I don't know if this makes sense at all. But I've never seriously thought that the stability of the US government was at risk in my lifetime, and now I can't shake the feeling that it is. As much as I really don't like the political direction Trump is taking us, I had hoped he'd just be a President I didn't like. Now it feels like our government is coming apart at the seams, and I'm surprised at how frightened it's leaving me. I'm not naive, I've worked on the Hill and as a Fed. But there's something peculiar happening right now that's very troubling...and I wish it weren't happening at all.

Anyone here who was alive during Watergate? Was this the sentiment people had then too?

I'm with you, OP. My rational brain tells me that there can't really be a danger, but there have been breaking news stories that actually make my heart start pounding. It is so unthinkable, and yet. . .

This isn't going to blow over, OP. It's not business as usual, or, if this is business as usual, then we need to thoroughly clean house.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/politics/russians-trump-campaign-information/

Firing Trump's SIL isn't going to make this go away. The only person who can resolve this is Mueller.

I am very worried too. Trump is doing so much damage, so quickly. It feels like no one is in charge. Like free fall.

Follow the money. Question why exit polls are always Democratic, then the R wins. Why does right wing media parrot the points it does?

The country will be torn apart. Creditability lost around the world. Stock market plummets. Second Amendmenters get their guns and organize. Pence president and women's rights crushed...

Yes, I am getting nervous. As a liberal I smell something fishy.. as an american, I hope that everything is founded to be untrue. For the sake of our nation.

To be clear up front, I'm not advocating for stopping investigations or denying that there is something shady going on. This is entirely an emotional reaction. Obviously, it's been in the news for a while, and I've been trying to untangle rumors from reality. But increasingly, whatever happened seems like it's about to out...and I don't like what it's revealing about our government and democracy. I mean, much of what's being revealed has been true since before Trump...but I don't feel like I can hold out hope for the counter-narrative that I'm just over-reacting/being hysterical being true anymore.

I don't know if this makes sense at all. But I've never seriously thought that the stability of the US government was at risk in my lifetime, and now I can't shake the feeling that it is. As much as I really don't like the political direction Trump is taking us, I had hoped he'd just be a President I didn't like. Now it feels like our government is coming apart at the seams, and I'm surprised at how frightened it's leaving me. I'm not naive, I've worked on the Hill and as a Fed. But there's something peculiar happening right now that's very troubling...and I wish it weren't happening at all.

Anyone here who was alive during Watergate? Was this the sentiment people had then too?