Anonymous wrote:Uh, why is everyone suggesting punishments and rewards when it's clear she's actually doing MORE work to conceal than it would take to do it in the first place? She really doesn't want to do these things. They're painful enough that she's willing to go out of her way to avoid them. That's kind of the opposite of laziness or not understanding the consequences.

Honestly, OP, this sounds a bit like me at that age and later-- I was less extreme but I had mild OCD and moderate anxiety and sensory issues. I beg you to address this from that angle first. I think people assume people with OCD are hyper-clean, but it can manifest as the opposite as well.

My thoughts exactly.

Punishments, rewards, and shaming are not the way to go--for anything.

OP, behaviors have meaning. Get to the root of what's begins the behavior. Tackle the disease, not the symptom.

If she is scared to flush, maybe tell her to put the top down before flushing to muffle the sound? And get one of those old fashioned furry toilet seat covers to muffle it even further.

Anonymous wrote:The skidmarks and clogged toilets may be a sign of constipation accompanied by encopresis. I'd do a little reading and see if it sounds like it might be the case.

+1

My 7 year old also forgets to flush, but she's really absent minded and disorganized generally...I've thought about ADHD for her and waiting to see if she gets better with age. She doesn't take all those steps to hide it though, so that seems different.

I would have the school guidance counselor and/or pediatrician have a formal discussion about her hygiene issues. Sometimes the shame of an outsider will cause the child to change their ways.

The skidmarks and clogged toilets may be a sign of constipation accompanied by encopresis. I'd do a little reading and see if it sounds like it might be the case.

Anonymous wrote:I hated the sound of the toilet flushing when I was that age. I learned to wash my hands first and then flush and run so I wouldn't get in trouble. I don't remember if I had wiping issues. I did hate brushing my teeth too because of the sound in it made in my head. I also didn't like to eat crunchy things (carrots, chips, etc.). No idea what it was about, but I grew out of it. There are still noises that drive me crazy today, but nothing that interferes with hygiene.

I can't stand the sound of brushing my teeth either. An electric toothbrush and leaving the water on helps a lot.

I hated the sound of the toilet flushing when I was that age. I learned to wash my hands first and then flush and run so I wouldn't get in trouble. I don't remember if I had wiping issues. I did hate brushing my teeth too because of the sound in it made in my head. I also didn't like to eat crunchy things (carrots, chips, etc.). No idea what it was about, but I grew out of it. There are still noises that drive me crazy today, but nothing that interferes with hygiene.

I agree that there may be sensory avoidant issues at play here. I'd ask the ped, and possibly see an OT.

Uh, why is everyone suggesting punishments and rewards when it's clear she's actually doing MORE work to conceal than it would take to do it in the first place? She really doesn't want to do these things. They're painful enough that she's willing to go out of her way to avoid them. That's kind of the opposite of laziness or not understanding the consequences.

Honestly, OP, this sounds a bit like me at that age and later-- I was less extreme but I had mild OCD and moderate anxiety and sensory issues. I beg you to address this from that angle first. I think people assume people with OCD are hyper-clean, but it can manifest as the opposite as well.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks for the reply. It's beyond gross, and DH and I are both sick and tired of having to micromanage this. But I like your ideas re making her wash her leotards. She said she is scared to flush. I know she is terrified of those automatic flush toilets in public rest rooms. But we are home and our toilet is nothing like that. She doesn't wipe well either and we have flushable wipes that she uses.

She closes the door when she goes to bathroom or brush her teeth and claims she wants privacy. But then she takes more effort to hide her lack of hygiene.

Yes will start to charge her for every unflushed bathroom business or lied about tooth brush.

Honestly, the door closure stops now. She has not shown that she can be trusted to follow through. "Until we have 20 days of flushed toilets and hands washed, the door stays open. When you have shown you can take care of your business in the bathroom, then you get to have privacy."

This is your house OP. Your rules. My go-to line is "When children don't make the right choices, it's my job to make some different choices for you." SHe has not been choosing to be clean or to tell the truth. Therefore, you will choose whether that door stays open or not. Right now, it stays open.

Elaborate reward charts don't work well for us. I will
Be honest. DH and I have three kids and full time jobs and we simply cannot enforce. Even our 3 year old can use the bathroom, flush, and wash hands with her step by the sink. No issues with our 6 year old boy. He will sometimes ask for help with wiping to make sure he is clean if he isn't sure. But our oldest is seriously disgusting.

Op here. Thanks for the reply. It's beyond gross, and DH and I are both sick and tired of having to micromanage this. But I like your ideas re making her wash her leotards. She said she is scared to flush. I know she is terrified of those automatic flush toilets in public rest rooms. But we are home and our toilet is nothing like that. She doesn't wipe well either and we have flushable wipes that she uses.

She closes the door when she goes to bathroom or brush her teeth and claims she wants privacy. But then she takes more effort to hide her lack of hygiene.

Yes will start to charge her for every unflushed bathroom business or lied about tooth brush.

Have you set up a behavior reinforcement system? Figure out what she wants to work for. Set up a chart, something like...

--Toilet was flushed each time it was used. Yes. No
--Teeth were brushed with one reminder in the AM. Yes No
--Hands were washed after using toilet. Yes No
--Teeth were brushed with one reminder in the PM. Yes. No

4 Yes circled = 30 min of screen time (or $ towards a toy or something she really wants)
3 Yes circled = 15 min of screen time (or half $ of what could be earned with 4 Yes circled)

Stop the scolding and move towards earning something with positive reinforcement. Every time she leaves the bathroom clean, heaps tons of praise and hugs and smiles. "You did it Larla! Way to be a big girl by taking care of our bathroom. Love it!"

Stay super consistent. Once you figure out what her "currency" is, focus on ways to get that. That is the only way this can work.

Does she get an allowance? Every time you have to flush, she loses $1.

She washes her own underwear and leotards. If she doesn't, she doesn't go to dance--ballerinas aren't stinky.

You and/or DH will stand there and observe her tooth brushing. She's lost the trust to do it alone. Heck, maybe you need to stand outside the door when she uses the toilet too, just to hear the flushing and watch her wash her hands. No hand washing? No snacks or toys until she does.

Have you asked why she doesn't flush? Does she behave the same at school/in public?

I'm at my wits end. My 8 year old DD has the nastiest hygiene and I have no idea How to fix this. Most importantly, she doesn't flush the toilet. Ever. Even for #2. She leaves every toilet in our house clogged with tons of paper and unfinished pee and feces. And she doesn't wipe well or wash her hands afterward either. Doesn't brush teeth without harassment. Just disgusting in general. She dances and I am always finding skid marks in her leotards.

The worst part is she will go through great efforts not to do these things. She will wet her toothbrush and leave it unused in the bathroom so we think she brushes. I literally have to demand to smell her breath which is proof she didn't. When she doesn't flush she makes the effort to lift the seat up so we think it's her brother (who is 6 and fastidious about flushing and wiping). Why the effort when it's just easier to flush? Then she lies. And says she is "scared" to flush.

How do I remedy this? Scolding doesn't work. Forcing her to flush takes so much effort but it's truly disbursing to happen upon a nasty several hours old turd that makes their bathroom reek. Or even worse when she uses our master bathroom and we happen upon it.

What is going on?