I don't think you can exactly blame this on HGTV, except inasmuch as it exposed buyers in areas of the country where this may not have been standard practice to the concept. But where we live, this has long been the way inspections work. Our neighbor likes to tell the story of a previous owner of our home who bought in the mid-90s and almost walked away because the inspection found the refrigerator was 40 years old. (We are not in an area where appliances are expected to be included!) She negotiated the price down to purchase a new refrigerator. It's still running 20+ years later!

That said, none of these should be negotiating points unless the age or condition is significantly different from what would have been visible in a walkthrough prior to an offer. The point of post-inspection adjustments is to take into consideration differences between what a buyer thought conditions were and what they actually are. If I thought the roof was newer and in good condition and it turns out to be 20 years old with some weak spots--yes, that's definitely a point of negotiation. If I thought it was new and it's 10 years old but in perfect condition--not so much (and as a seller, I wouldn't budge on that).

I get it that sellers think the market means they can unload homes with deferred maintenance without taking a hit on market value, but we walked from three houses that were complete messes. Two of them are still on the market after two months.

The house we bought, the seller agreed to fix the major systems and handle anything health or safety reasons.

And the issue a seller is going to run into is that a fallen through contract will likely mean longer list time and a lower price.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother has been a realtor for over 30 years. She has always used inspections for negotiating on big items. In general, anything that can cause over $5K worth of repairs needs to be taken into account either with a seller repair, seller credit or price negotiation. That is within reason. For example, something that is nearing the end of its life span. Roofs over 20 years old, major appliances over 10 years old or identified by the inspector as in need of repair. That type of thing. Small fixes, like outlets, basic plumbing, light fixtures, are usually either make the seller repair/replace or deal.

That's fine, but in our last sale I found that they were trying to come after us for things that would happen way down the line. Our roof was 15 years old on a 20 year roof. They wanted a credit for possibly needing to replace the roof 5 years down the road. Are you joking? The 20 year roof that was well maintained is actually not likely to need to be immediately replaced in 5 years and even if it were, you have 5 years to plan for it, but more likely 7-10. At which point I'll need to replace the roof on my new house too, so why would I be footing your prospective repair 10 years down the road?

This. Just because an inspector notes that a roof is nearing the end of its appraisal life value is a very different thing than saying that a roof is likely to need to be replaced in the next 2 years. An appraisal life is a meaningless accounting concept that has no bearing on what THIS roof's expected life is.

And frankly, even if an inspector says this roof is likely to need replacement in 5 years, I'm not sure why seller is expected to pay for this. Like the PP said, buyers have at least 5 years to prepare for that. As a homeowner of 25 years, I am always anticipating an average of $3000 in repairs per year. Sometimes it will be none, but some years will be a roof.

It is relevant if you're competing against 2 - 5 year old homes, and that has to be taken into account that there's 10+ more years of life left in the roof when pricing. It should already be accounted for in their offer, but it IS relevant if a major home item is near the end of its usable life, especially if the buyer didn't know that and there's something newer on the market at the same price point.

I'm not saying they're right to negotiate, but I do think it's relevant if your house has a 15 year old roof or a 3 year old roof.

I had a first time buyer ask us to fix everything on the inspection report (which only had minor things: wobbly railing, one outlet with reverse polarity, loose nail on gutter) AND wanted $10k in credit. Completely ridiculous. My agent rolled her eyes.

Hmm...I've never done this or experienced it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother has been a realtor for over 30 years. She has always used inspections for negotiating on big items. In general, anything that can cause over $5K worth of repairs needs to be taken into account either with a seller repair, seller credit or price negotiation. That is within reason. For example, something that is nearing the end of its life span. Roofs over 20 years old, major appliances over 10 years old or identified by the inspector as in need of repair. That type of thing. Small fixes, like outlets, basic plumbing, light fixtures, are usually either make the seller repair/replace or deal.

That's fine, but in our last sale I found that they were trying to come after us for things that would happen way down the line. Our roof was 15 years old on a 20 year roof. They wanted a credit for possibly needing to replace the roof 5 years down the road. Are you joking? The 20 year roof that was well maintained is actually not likely to need to be immediately replaced in 5 years and even if it were, you have 5 years to plan for it, but more likely 7-10. At which point I'll need to replace the roof on my new house too, so why would I be footing your prospective repair 10 years down the road?

This. Just because an inspector notes that a roof is nearing the end of its appraisal life value is a very different thing than saying that a roof is likely to need to be replaced in the next 2 years. An appraisal life is a meaningless accounting concept that has no bearing on what THIS roof's expected life is.

And frankly, even if an inspector says this roof is likely to need replacement in 5 years, I'm not sure why seller is expected to pay for this. Like the PP said, buyers have at least 5 years to prepare for that. As a homeowner of 25 years, I am always anticipating an average of $3000 in repairs per year. Sometimes it will be none, but some years will be a roof.

Anonymous wrote:Your house not selling as easily as you hoped, OP?

OP here. Actually, no! House went on the market 3 weeks ago, under contract on the offer deadline day, $100k over asking. They did a pre inspection. so there. But I was talking about this with a friend who just bought last year, and saw a few posts on this forum that made me think about it.

Anonymous wrote:My mother has been a realtor for over 30 years. She has always used inspections for negotiating on big items. In general, anything that can cause over $5K worth of repairs needs to be taken into account either with a seller repair, seller credit or price negotiation. That is within reason. For example, something that is nearing the end of its life span. Roofs over 20 years old, major appliances over 10 years old or identified by the inspector as in need of repair. That type of thing. Small fixes, like outlets, basic plumbing, light fixtures, are usually either make the seller repair/replace or deal.

That's fine, but in our last sale I found that they were trying to come after us for things that would happen way down the line. Our roof was 15 years old on a 20 year roof. They wanted a credit for possibly needing to replace the roof 5 years down the road. Are you joking? The 20 year roof that was well maintained is actually not likely to need to be immediately replaced in 5 years and even if it were, you have 5 years to plan for it, but more likely 7-10. At which point I'll need to replace the roof on my new house too, so why would I be footing your prospective repair 10 years down the road?

My mother has been a realtor for over 30 years. She has always used inspections for negotiating on big items. In general, anything that can cause over $5K worth of repairs needs to be taken into account either with a seller repair, seller credit or price negotiation. That is within reason. For example, something that is nearing the end of its life span. Roofs over 20 years old, major appliances over 10 years old or identified by the inspector as in need of repair. That type of thing. Small fixes, like outlets, basic plumbing, light fixtures, are usually either make the seller repair/replace or deal.

Well, a 22 year old roof might be a big deal to me, having just replaced one. It was pricey.

I do agree, though. I hate watching that channel and they come in to a perfectly functioning, nice, albeit a tiny bit out of date kitchen and they say "this MUST be gutted!!! prior to move in!"

There is a huge difference between buying a house that needs some repairs in the short term that will total a few thousand dollars and buying a house that the inspector anticipates will need $50k worth of work within 5 years. The offer on the house most likely would have been lower to begin with if that had been known at the outset, so of course negotiations ensue.

Appliances and materials that are produced today are intentionally built to crap out much sooner than they used to be. If the inspector looks at a 15 year old roof with damaged and curling shingles and says "you're looking at replacement in 5 years", I have no reason not to believe that. Once upon a time that would have been eye opening, but no more.

Anonymous wrote:

We have bought and sold several times in the last 8 years, and it seems that the inspection has become an expected second opportunity to negotiate the price downward. Any inspector is going to find 100 things to note in its inspection with any house - no matter how well maintained. The report will note an electrical outlet that has reverse polarity but works fine. A toilet where the seal has worn away but works fine. An 18 year old hot water heater where their "appraisal life value" is only 8-10 years. Or a roof that is 22 years old where their appraisal life is only 15-20 years.
... made up stuff in the inspections,

I don't think this is the HGTV effect - I think this is good inspecting. These are not cosmetic issues, these are real, structural/functional issues in a house. While they may not be having a functional impact yet, a good inspector is going to point them out so the buyer knows what they can anticipate.

Separating the inspecting (which I see as a very good thing -- maybe your buyers just had crappier inspectors 20 years ago?) from the negotiating, I think the negotiating MAY be related to a few things. While not currently the case in many markets, we went through a pretty long time period in the last decade where it was a buyer's market. People asked for concessions because they could. That is now ingrained in most realtors who have only been working for the last 10 - 15 years, and it is the only experience many buyers have. They'd be stupid not to ask.

It's just like offers - in a buyer's market, they're going to lowball you, and lots of people are now appalled that they have to bid over asking and are still losing homes. They haven't adjusted to it being a seller's market.

Your house not selling as easily as you hoped, OP?

HGTV has had a bizarrely powerful role shaping middle America's views on homes in many ways, agreed!

My recollection from buying 20 years ago was that you did a home inspection, if the house was falling into a sink hole, you walked away. If the A/c unit was totally nonfunctional during the inspection, you got a credit for closing.

We have bought and sold several times in the last 8 years, and it seems that the inspection has become an expected second opportunity to negotiate the price downward. Any inspector is going to find 100 things to note in its inspection with any house - no matter how well maintained. The report will note an electrical outlet that has reverse polarity but works fine. A toilet where the seal has worn away but works fine. An 18 year old hot water heater where their "appraisal life value" is only 8-10 years. Or a roof that is 22 years old where their appraisal life is only 15-20 years.

Human beings know that the first two examples are not things that need to be repaired. For the latter two examples, human beings know that the "appraisal life values" are, like accounting life classes, just formulaic data that have no relation to the actual life expectancy of any given roof, and that most roofs will last 30-40 years with some minor repairs.

But for some reason, people now expect that they can go through the inspection report and add up all the "anticipated repair costs" and ask for a discount on the house based on, say, 50% of such anticipated repair costs. Even if they never intend on making the repairs.

I blame this on HGTV, where, whenever there is a homebuyers show, in order to insert drama before the last commercial break, they inevitably show the inspector flagging something "major" like a 15 year old roof or lack of a French drain, and the inspector tells them it is life or death if they don't get this repaired NOW (despite the fact that people have been happily living in the house for 100 years). Like much of these shows, this was staged drama that wasn't based in reality. every episode involved an "inspection moment of crisis".

But much like HGTV has made everyone weirdly focused on granite and stainless steel (even in lieu of more expensive, prettier options), everyone is now super focused on made up stuff in the inspections, and expects the seller to compensate them for it. It's a weird change in the house buying process over the last 20 years.