Anonymous wrote:This is a great article. I wish it were about DC so I could better understand the specifics of how things go this way here, exactly. But the dynamics are exactly the same. My IB is PS 191, basically. Although there is no 2.7 million apartment next door, but still.

I feel it boils down to policy, not individual free will sacrifices and "choice". Policy must force integration and yet we have no appetite for this. I'm at least glad that charters here do tend to be diverse in both racial and SES, though not matching the city.

A shocking detail for me was learning that at our low performing IB, most parents listed it as their first choice in the lottery. That to me indicates they don't know anything about other options. Of course those options are only for the lottery "winners" or those who can make sense of the system and invest time into that.

Or maybe they prioritized being within walking distance to school? They had to lottery for it for preschool - so that in and of itself wasn't a barrier.

CTRL +F "Samantha Bee"

No results so I hit close tab.

This is a great article. I wish it were about DC so I could better understand the specifics of how things go this way here, exactly. But the dynamics are exactly the same. My IB is PS 191, basically. Although there is no 2.7 million apartment next door, but still.

I feel it boils down to policy, not individual free will sacrifices and "choice". Policy must force integration and yet we have no appetite for this. I'm at least glad that charters here do tend to be diverse in both racial and SES, though not matching the city.

A shocking detail for me was learning that at our low performing IB, most parents listed it as their first choice in the lottery. That to me indicates they don't know anything about other options. Of course those options are only for the lottery "winners" or those who can make sense of the system and invest time into that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

DCPS is clearly willing to adjust its course offerings in MS and HS to challenge kids appropriately. Elementary school is less about challenge and more about learning the basics. If you would just send your kid to your local schools, the schools would adjust.

In elementary school it is about being able to afford nice things like music and art. DCPS fails on that score. I do send my kid to the local school, and it has been very difficult. There simply is not enough funding for what i would like her to have, and there never will be. Maybe 10 or 15 years from now it might change, but her childhood is now.

Right now we are trying to get them to PLAY ON THE PLAYGROUND consistently. Even that is challenging for budget and cultural reasons. So stop trying to guilt trip me. I seriously do nothing with my free time except work on the neighborhood school, and it is clear to me that it will be impossible to make any significant improvement in time to helpy daughter. Not because of race or low-income kids, but because of funding and DCPS dysfunction. It sucks and we are going charter as soo as we can.

What is the programming that you would like her to have? Are those wishes in line with what is provided in other school systems, or are you simply wishing for more arts and music funding overall? I don't fault you for the latter, but I think that unless you have a concrete example of a system that is providing the programming you want, you may need to adjust your expectations. For example, my DD's school has full time specials teachers. They get formal art, music, and Spanish once a week. They get gym twice a week. Some art and music happen in the classroom on a less formal basis as well, and there is more programming of that kind during aftercare. This is a Title 1 school, so the full time specials is something that's provided by law. The specials programming at my elementary school in the midwest in "a good school district" was similar, except I think we had gym 3x a week and no Spanish at all.

I do agree with you about getting kids outside onto the playground more consistently. I would love if we could have morning and afternoon recess where kids go outside unless it's precipitating, under 30 degrees or over 100 degrees, but it's been made very clear to me by DCPS that a) they are not willing to cut into "instructional time" for more recess and b) there's nothing they can do about making teachers go outside.

We had to cut back to part time Spanish and Music for budget reasons. Also, the specials teachers just aren't very good or motivated-- watching The Lion King is not music class. I went to a low-income elementary school and we had way better teachers and programs. Overall I do not care what the school has, as long as it has something. Right now there is just the bare minimum of everything and the teaching is meh.

Playing outside is an aftercare issue. The staff is just too lazy to do ot and they think it is cold outside. Other parents complain that it is cold as well. The principal is unwilling to do anything about it.

I think the point if the article, buried at the end, is that parents are only willing to sacrifice so much, and only if they feel the school district is trying to do the right thing and backing it up with real money. DCPS is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

DCPS is clearly willing to adjust its course offerings in MS and HS to challenge kids appropriately. Elementary school is less about challenge and more about learning the basics. If you would just send your kid to your local schools, the schools would adjust.

In elementary school it is about being able to afford nice things like music and art. DCPS fails on that score. I do send my kid to the local school, and it has been very difficult. There simply is not enough funding for what i would like her to have, and there never will be. Maybe 10 or 15 years from now it might change, but her childhood is now.

Right now we are trying to get them to PLAY ON THE PLAYGROUND consistently. Even that is challenging for budget and cultural reasons. So stop trying to guilt trip me. I seriously do nothing with my free time except work on the neighborhood school, and it is clear to me that it will be impossible to make any significant improvement in time to helpy daughter. Not because of race or low-income kids, but because of funding and DCPS dysfunction. It sucks and we are going charter as soo as we can.

What is the programming that you would like her to have? Are those wishes in line with what is provided in other school systems, or are you simply wishing for more arts and music funding overall? I don't fault you for the latter, but I think that unless you have a concrete example of a system that is providing the programming you want, you may need to adjust your expectations. For example, my DD's school has full time specials teachers. They get formal art, music, and Spanish once a week. They get gym twice a week. Some art and music happen in the classroom on a less formal basis as well, and there is more programming of that kind during aftercare. This is a Title 1 school, so the full time specials is something that's provided by law. The specials programming at my elementary school in the midwest in "a good school district" was similar, except I think we had gym 3x a week and no Spanish at all.

I do agree with you about getting kids outside onto the playground more consistently. I would love if we could have morning and afternoon recess where kids go outside unless it's precipitating, under 30 degrees or over 100 degrees, but it's been made very clear to me by DCPS that a) they are not willing to cut into "instructional time" for more recess and b) there's nothing they can do about making teachers go outside.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

DCPS is clearly willing to adjust its course offerings in MS and HS to challenge kids appropriately. Elementary school is less about challenge and more about learning the basics. If you would just send your kid to your local schools, the schools would adjust.

Oh how naive. If many parents sent many children to the school for many years, and self-funded it, it would eventually adjust over 15 years or more.

I just want her to have a few nice programs and a few peers on grade level. Is that really asking too much?

Where do you live?

Ward 5. Terribly lottery numbers two years in a row. Not going to tell you the school as it would jeopardize our hard-won, sad and pathetic teaspoon of progress.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

DCPS is clearly willing to adjust its course offerings in MS and HS to challenge kids appropriately. Elementary school is less about challenge and more about learning the basics. If you would just send your kid to your local schools, the schools would adjust.

Oh how naive. If many parents sent many children to the school for many years, and self-funded it, it would eventually adjust over 15 years or more.

I just want her to have a few nice programs and a few peers on grade level. Is that really asking too much?

Where do you live?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

DCPS is clearly willing to adjust its course offerings in MS and HS to challenge kids appropriately. Elementary school is less about challenge and more about learning the basics. If you would just send your kid to your local schools, the schools would adjust.

Oh how naive. If many parents sent many children to the school for many years, and self-funded it, it would eventually adjust over 15 years or more.

I just want her to have a few nice programs and a few peers on grade level. Is that really asking too much?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

DCPS is clearly willing to adjust its course offerings in MS and HS to challenge kids appropriately. Elementary school is less about challenge and more about learning the basics. If you would just send your kid to your local schools, the schools would adjust.

In elementary school it is about being able to afford nice things like music and art. DCPS fails on that score. I do send my kid to the local school, and it has been very difficult. There simply is not enough funding for what i would like her to have, and there never will be. Maybe 10 or 15 years from now it might change, but her childhood is now.

Right now we are trying to get them to PLAY ON THE PLAYGROUND consistently. Even that is challenging for budget and cultural reasons. So stop trying to guilt trip me. I seriously do nothing with my free time except work on the neighborhood school, and it is clear to me that it will be impossible to make any significant improvement in time to helpy daughter. Not because of race or low-income kids, but because of funding and DCPS dysfunction. It sucks and we are going charter as soo as we can.

Thanks for posting the link. One of the more nuanced pieces I have read about integration in rapidly changing cities. Getting deep into the history and analyzing individual decisions is key- broad statistical measures aren't necessarily all that helpful unless they are broken down on a school-by-school and sometimes even grade-by-grade basis, because that's how parents make decisions. A lot of the issue for parents is not wanting to be the first mover, or the last leaver. So its essentially a coordination and game theory problem, operationally. Of course the history and human nature of racism/tribalism/classism/understandable protectionism around kids all play a role in motivating these decisions.

Anonymous wrote:Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

DCPS is clearly willing to adjust its course offerings in MS and HS to challenge kids appropriately. Elementary school is less about challenge and more about learning the basics. If you would just send your kid to your local schools, the schools would adjust.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have thoughts?

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/04/the-privilege-of-school-choice/524103/

We're trying to live some version of the integrated version of this as a dual-income/upper-income white and Hispanic family in DC in a gentrifying neighborhood. A lot of the considerations here ring true regardless of the differences between DC and the Upper West Side. Despite our choices, I know I feel the opinions of others that seem very similar to what's being expressed in the article. And I wish more of us chose integration - it feels like this country won't really succeed until we're more willing.

One concern I haven't seen addressed for those upper-income families who choose integration is what to do down the line when the kids' learning outstrips the ability of teaching staff to differentiate in the integrated elementary classroom. For example, if your kid reads and comprehends high school English material in second or third grade and can manage algebra in 4th grade, are you SUPPOSED to try to self-segregate into a gifted program, even if you weren't trying to find some race-based gifted and talented enclave to "breathe easy" away from everyone else? This might sound unlikely or entitled or something, but given the way things have gone in our kids' elementary school experience and our testing and educational attainment as parents, it's probably an upcoming decision point.

I know this is just more grist for the mill for many of us, but I appreciated the article.

Is this a joke? If your child is doing HS level work in 2nd or 3rd, then obviously your child needs a highly specialized environment that can address the conflict between the intellectual giftedness and what will be perceived as social retardation. (By way of example, a 2nd grader who is socially appropriate for 2nd grade probably thinks a red stain on another student's jeans is funny like a jelly stain - and can't understand the mortification of her classmate who is unexpectedly having her period).

Same. I don't need a separate program for its own sake, but it seems like the only way to get DD adrquately challenged. If DCPS and the mayor were willing to spend an adequate amount of money on schools overall, we might not have this problem. But they will not retain high SES families and have enough integration until that happens.

Anyone have thoughts?

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/04/the-privilege-of-school-choice/524103/

We're trying to live some version of the integrated version of this as a dual-income/upper-income white and Hispanic family in DC in a gentrifying neighborhood. A lot of the considerations here ring true regardless of the differences between DC and the Upper West Side. Despite our choices, I know I feel the opinions of others that seem very similar to what's being expressed in the article. And I wish more of us chose integration - it feels like this country won't really succeed until we're more willing.

One concern I haven't seen addressed for those upper-income families who choose integration is what to do down the line when the kids' learning outstrips the ability of teaching staff to differentiate in the integrated elementary classroom. For example, if your kid reads and comprehends high school English material in second or third grade and can manage algebra in 4th grade, are you SUPPOSED to try to self-segregate into a gifted program, even if you weren't trying to find some race-based gifted and talented enclave to "breathe easy" away from everyone else? This might sound unlikely or entitled or something, but given the way things have gone in our kids' elementary school experience and our testing and educational attainment as parents, it's probably an upcoming decision point.

I know this is just more grist for the mill for many of us, but I appreciated the article.