OP, it sounds like a school/teacher issue and its not a good fit.

this sounds like a milder version of what we went through with our son, who was eventually dx'd with adhd. we started with play therapy and after six months of that saw a psychiatrist and got the dx (and an rx)

OP, check out livesinthebalance.org

It's the work of Dr. Ross Greene, whose perspectives and approach have been hugely helpful to us in managing similar behaviors to what you're describing, with our 5.5 yr old boy.

Anonymous wrote:OP, your son sounds like mine--also a young kindergartner who is smart but has impulse control issues. I've gotten called several times regarding him hitting classmates--problems tend to be at school rather than before/after care. He's also somewhat rigid.

Our pediatrician said that all this behavior is very normal for a five year old boy, and that while some of it would be a concern if he was older, she's not concerned and just feels he needs some time.

We're doing a lot of talking about not hitting and what to do when he's frustrated, he has a behavior chart and has seen the guidance counselor at school. And we wait.

This is OP - Thanks for this. I think we're in the same place. Is the behavior chart at school, or do you do it at home based on reports from the school? If we did it at home, I'm wondering if it would truly extinguish the behavior because I think I'm only getting reports of the most egregious incidents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take him to a developmental pediatrician if you have concerns. Seriously nothing you wrote would deeply concern me in the slightest.

He sounds like many kids his age. Honesty, you seem a little naive since you took him to an OT evaluation for hitting when he was a toddler. One, OTs don't diagnose anything and two, that's a pretty typical stage for kids to go through SN or not.

OP here. The OT evals were based on recommendations from his preschool. At the time we did not believe there were sensory issues but we also wanted to work with the preschool and didn't want him to get kicked out. I am not seeking out a diagnosis but we have been told several times that his inability to keep his hands to himself is impeding him socially. Since it's been an ongoing problem, I am wondering if there is an underlying issue.

I am happy to hear that this does not sound concerning.

I can't stand preschools like this. Toddlers and young preschoolers often go through hitting phases and squirminess is part of many kids' natural personalities. Some preschools expect every kid to march in step or there's something wrong with the kid. Ugh. Too rigid.

Truly, OP, I would find a different preschool but I could see why you wouldn't necessarily do this at this point in time. Make sure your kid gets plenty of exercise/physical activity, limit screen time, get enough sleep, and just keep a watchful eye on how he does in K. If you're getting a phone call from the teacher in the first two weeks, there's a problem.

This is OP, I know the original post was long but he is in K now. FWIW we did move him to a different preschool for his last year and didn't see the same issues. He's been in K since September. I'd say we've gotten 3-4 emails all year about "incidents". There's been kind of a perfect storm the past month of reports from school, aftercare, and sunday school which is why I'm asking now...

OP, your son sounds like mine--also a young kindergartner who is smart but has impulse control issues. I've gotten called several times regarding him hitting classmates--problems tend to be at school rather than before/after care. He's also somewhat rigid.

Our pediatrician said that all this behavior is very normal for a five year old boy, and that while some of it would be a concern if he was older, she's not concerned and just feels he needs some time.

We're doing a lot of talking about not hitting and what to do when he's frustrated, he has a behavior chart and has seen the guidance counselor at school. And we wait.

Is he possibly on the high functioning end of the autism scale? Its been awhile since I've done reading on it (DS ended up with a different SN) but I feel like I remember reading that there was a correlation between very young kids being gifted academically (like a Kindergarten child reading at a second grade level) and autism. Forgive me if I am not remembering correctly!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take him to a developmental pediatrician if you have concerns. Seriously nothing you wrote would deeply concern me in the slightest.

He sounds like many kids his age. Honesty, you seem a little naive since you took him to an OT evaluation for hitting when he was a toddler. One, OTs don't diagnose anything and two, that's a pretty typical stage for kids to go through SN or not.

OP here. The OT evals were based on recommendations from his preschool. At the time we did not believe there were sensory issues but we also wanted to work with the preschool and didn't want him to get kicked out. I am not seeking out a diagnosis but we have been told several times that his inability to keep his hands to himself is impeding him socially. Since it's been an ongoing problem, I am wondering if there is an underlying issue.

I am happy to hear that this does not sound concerning.

I can't stand preschools like this. Toddlers and young preschoolers often go through hitting phases and squirminess is part of many kids' natural personalities. Some preschools expect every kid to march in step or there's something wrong with the kid. Ugh. Too rigid.

Truly, OP, I would find a different preschool but I could see why you wouldn't necessarily do this at this point in time. Make sure your kid gets plenty of exercise/physical activity, limit screen time, get enough sleep, and just keep a watchful eye on how he does in K. If you're getting a phone call from the teacher in the first two weeks, there's a problem.

Anonymous wrote:I have a younger boy by a year, but he sounds VERY similar to your boy (down to the birth year). We dealt with behavioral issues/hitting earlier in PK. The issue was the school setting: too rigid, age inappropriate expectations, and they had no positive discipline techniques. We were able to deal with it by moving him to a different environment. Unfortunately for you (and me next year) that's not so easy once you're in K.

I would not bother with OT etc, since the obvious issues here seem to be the fit between your boy's personality, and the demands of the school and aftercare environment.

I would focus on two things. One, if at all possible, get him with an after school babysitter rather than aftercare. He's an introvert it sound like, and a babysitter will reduce his stress and he can get away from having to be around so many other kids in a non-homey environment.

Two, send in a child psychologist (or other professional) to observe him at school, then help put together a behavioral plan for the school to help him learn positive behaviors to deal with frustration. You may think that this is the sort of thing the school should do right away on their own, but they won't. I know, it's weird. But schools would rather ignore this until they can't, and then they will make it your problem rather than theirs. So, cut it off at the chase and find your own professional to analyze what's happening in the classroom.

I should add - an evaluation/screening for ADHD is also appropriate. But, don't let that stop you from taking steps that will address the problems that are obvious right now.

I have a younger boy by a year, but he sounds VERY similar to your boy (down to the birth year). We dealt with behavioral issues/hitting earlier in PK. The issue was the school setting: too rigid, age inappropriate expectations, and they had no positive discipline techniques. We were able to deal with it by moving him to a different environment. Unfortunately for you (and me next year) that's not so easy once you're in K.

I would not bother with OT etc, since the obvious issues here seem to be the fit between your boy's personality, and the demands of the school and aftercare environment.

I would focus on two things. One, if at all possible, get him with an after school babysitter rather than aftercare. He's an introvert it sound like, and a babysitter will reduce his stress and he can get away from having to be around so many other kids in a non-homey environment.

Two, send in a child psychologist (or other professional) to observe him at school, then help put together a behavioral plan for the school to help him learn positive behaviors to deal with frustration. You may think that this is the sort of thing the school should do right away on their own, but they won't. I know, it's weird. But schools would rather ignore this until they can't, and then they will make it your problem rather than theirs. So, cut it off at the chase and find your own professional to analyze what's happening in the classroom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take him to a developmental pediatrician if you have concerns. Seriously nothing you wrote would deeply concern me in the slightest.

He sounds like many kids his age. Honesty, you seem a little naive since you took him to an OT evaluation for hitting when he was a toddler. One, OTs don't diagnose anything and two, that's a pretty typical stage for kids to go through SN or not.

OP here. The OT evals were based on recommendations from his preschool. At the time we did not believe there were sensory issues but we also wanted to work with the preschool and didn't want him to get kicked out. I am not seeking out a diagnosis but we have been told several times that his inability to keep his hands to himself is impeding him socially. Since it's been an ongoing problem, I am wondering if there is an underlying issue.

I am happy to hear that this does not sound concerning.

This and the squirminess could speak to ADHD or to just being a bit slower on developing impulse control ... impossible to know without an evaluation.

In isolation, what you've written doesn't jump out at me as much out of the norm. It does sound like he's a bit more on the rigid side than most, though. Kids who are rigid thinkers can be very hung up about fairness. Things are very black and white, so someone who breaks a rule (cutting in line) needs to be punished (justifying the hitting). Defiance can also stem from perceived injustice and tantrums from problems with flexible thinking. Mental flexibility is how we calm "hot" emotions by adjusting our viewpoint, e.g. when Larla takes the last cookie we can throw a tantrum or we could think of other sweets to have or ways we could get a cookie or even that we really didn't want a cookie in the first place.

There is a book called Unstuck and On Target that specifically teaches flexible thinking and is sometimes taught as a program. I understand Ivymount does runnings regularly.

Have looked into doing play therapy?

Anonymous wrote:Take him to a developmental pediatrician if you have concerns. Seriously nothing you wrote would deeply concern me in the slightest.

He sounds like many kids his age. Honesty, you seem a little naive since you took him to an OT evaluation for hitting when he was a toddler. One, OTs don't diagnose anything and two, that's a pretty typical stage for kids to go through SN or not.

OP here. The OT evals were based on recommendations from his preschool. At the time we did not believe there were sensory issues but we also wanted to work with the preschool and didn't want him to get kicked out. I am not seeking out a diagnosis but we have been told several times that his inability to keep his hands to himself is impeding him socially. Since it's been an ongoing problem, I am wondering if there is an underlying issue.

I am happy to hear that this does not sound concerning.

Take him to a developmental pediatrician if you have concerns. Seriously nothing you wrote would deeply concern me in the slightest.

He sounds like many kids his age. Honesty, you seem a little naive since you took him to an OT evaluation for hitting when he was a toddler. One, OTs don't diagnose anything and two, that's a pretty typical stage for kids to go through SN or not.

Here's a description of DS. Help me figure out what kind of help (if any) he needs.

The good:
- young kindergartner (birthday within a month of the cutoff). Preschool teachers had no qualms about his readiness for K.
- Academically advanced - Reading, writing, and math skills probably in the 2nd grade range
- only child
- articulate and a great conversationalist, strong vocabulary
- generally gets along well with his peers, though he seems to do better with older kids. We don't have kids knocking down our door for playdates but both parents work outside of the house so there's not a ton of time.
- has varied interests - is really interested in all sports (playing and watching), board games, phone games, likes sitting down to do school work/workbooks, etc.
- he's a great sleeper, usually lights out by 7:30 and he wakes up around 7.

The not so good:
- off and on since he was about 2, he has gone through phases of unprovoked hitting and pushing. We've had him evaluated by an OT twice and both times they said it was behavioral and further therapy was not recommended. This had been less of a problem for the past ~1.5 years but started again recently.
- His K teacher and others have commented that he's having trouble listening and takes many reminders to do stuff. They have indicated that he is "clearly the youngest," squirmy, etc.
- while he does seem to do ok with friends, he also seems to prefer to play by himself (and will say at a playdate, "I don't want to play with Larla. I'd rather play by myself.")
- this year more than in the past, he gets upset easily, has trouble coping if something doesn't go his way, etc. It can be emotional (tears) or can be aggression to us (parents) and friends.
- he is terrible about taking responsibility for his actions and always blames others, even when he hits (like they deserved it for something they did)

For the most part it feels like he's a normal, slightly immature kindergartner. He's mostly happy at home with occasional defiance and argumentative behavior. He doesn't complain about school though sometimes if I dig he'll say, "I don't know why everyone tests me." He also doesn't talk too much about close friends. But the hitting is a problem. Yesterday I got a call from school that he basically started pounding on another kid for cutting in a line (this is not a regular thing but he's also on the verge of getting kicked out of his before/after care for hitting.)

Note that I brought it up proactively with the teacher (i.e., she did not raise red flags) so I feel like there wasn't an obvious problem. I do think he's either gotten worse over the course of the year or his peers have been maturing more quickly so it's now more obvious he's lagging. We're trying to involve the guidance counselor for some 1:1 support as well as hopefully a social skills group after spring break. I also am hoping to do a behavioral consult with his Ped in the next couple months.

Wondering if anyone has BTDT and has suggestions? I do believe we can make some adjustments at home and have been working on more positive parenting techniques. Should we be talking to the Ped about a developmental ped? child psych? Should this be within the realm of what the guidance counselor should be able to manage within the school?

thanks in advance.