Anonymous wrote:Not helicoptering to explain, and then offer help with making some flung opportunities with the new kids.

When my high school kid moved to a new crowd and invited them over, I made sure our house was the coolest ever (parents who only show up to ask about pizza toppings or to put cookies on the table, excellent sap acts, stereo at their choice of volume) and encouraged him to invite his buddies over on a regular basis. I don't think that is helicoptering.

OP here, and I'm cracking up because I do this too!! When DD has new friends over, I go out and buy all the crappy snacks that I refuse to buy any other time. Anything to make her feel confident and help with the "cool" factor, to the extent that doritos can do that. LOL.

Not helicoptering to explain, and then offer help with making some flung opportunities with the new kids.

When my high school kid moved to a new crowd and invited them over, I made sure our house was the coolest ever (parents who only show up to ask about pizza toppings or to put cookies on the table, excellent sap acts, stereo at their choice of volume) and encouraged him to invite his buddies over on a regular basis. I don't think that is helicoptering.

Anonymous wrote:I'm 13:41... I just read your other thread. I did want to echo what others said - we also have a therapist who DD sees sort of in spurts when she feels the need. She has been really helpful in working on social skills and helping her see social scenarios in context. (Some of the same things I tell her, but it's better received coming from someone else.) She's also a more neutral party - I tend to focus on the areas where DD needs work and she often will remind her that she deserves kindness and loyalty exactly as she is, which helps her self-esteem. (I'm always in "how do we fix this" mode.)

We have done some social skills classes when she was the same age as your DD. They were somewhat helpful - a lot of that effectiveness, IMO depends on the therapist and the mix of kids in the group.

Wow, we really are in the same boat. I am trying SO HARD to stop being in "how do we fix this" mode, and boosting her self-esteem by loving her as she is. I will be very honest here and say that it's hard. She is so unlike how I was as a kid. I was also very socially awkward, but I was overly mature for my age and had low self-esteem. We also did social skills classes but in hindsight they were not at all what she needed. The curriculum was way too broad, and DD didn't like going so they were pretty ineffectual.

Anonymous wrote:Hi, OP here. Thanks for your replies. So the thing is, she does have other girls to sit with. She has several really nice, accepting girls who she knows from elementary school, soccer, etc., and they are all very friendly to her. Two of them were at this same bat mitzvah on Saturday and the three girls had a very nice time together. And she went to the birthday party of another girl last night who again, is nice and kind and wants to be social with DD. I agree with all of you who said if the option is sitting with the mean girls or sitting alone, I wouldn't broach the conversation. But it's a case of sitting with the mean girls, or making deeper connections (to the extent possible, which honestly, with DD, is not very deep because her maturity level is pretty low) with the nice girls who are easy for her to interact with.

I really appreciate your replies. And 13:41 PP, ((((((((hugs)))))))))))

Thank your lucky stars for this. I rather agree with the teacher; she's not looking for help and doesn't seem deterred by them ignoring her. You can encourage her to reciprocate with the girls who do reach out and may suggest that she switch up days she eats lunch with different friends. No need to bring the reality hammer down on her at this point in time. I would intervene if these girls were bullying her, mocking her, pressuring to do things. But basically, it's just the mean girl cold shoulder.

Anonymous wrote:My DD is in this almost identical scenario, except older grades. I have tried to drop hints that she is being left out of things and although she didn't see it at all at first, she is starting to get that. (And is understandably very upset.) She is willing, however, to keep sitting there because she doesn't know where else to go. Sitting with girls who aren't being inclusive (and actually, are being somewhat mean) is better in her mind than being adrift without a group to sit with.

We spend a lot of time talking about friendship and how true friends act and the importance of loyalty. (DD is also a very black and white thinker, so it can be hard for her to see that there are other girls who would be better friends because even though they may have less in common, they are more accepting.)

Planting the seed has been the best way to go with my DD. She does eventually see what's happening as I point things out. (This is not the first time we've been down this road, unfortunately.) I also try to suggest alternatives and have her start thinking in that mode. So she can eventually switch off the "there's no where else to go" and get to the "maybe I can try this" stage. It takes time and she needs to get there herself but guiding her down that path isn't helicoptering, it's just assisting with social skills that come more naturally to some kids than others.

Guidance counselors are great with introductions into a group that they know will be inclusive, that she has more in common with AND that she can sit with at lunch & they do it without any of the kids being aware that it's even a "set up".

Anonymous wrote:Hi, OP here. Thanks for your replies. So the thing is, she does have other girls to sit with. She has several really nice, accepting girls who she knows from elementary school, soccer, etc., and they are all very friendly to her. Two of them were at this same bat mitzvah on Saturday and the three girls had a very nice time together. And she went to the birthday party of another girl last night who again, is nice and kind and wants to be social with DD. I agree with all of you who said if the option is sitting with the mean girls or sitting alone, I wouldn't broach the conversation. But it's a case of sitting with the mean girls, or making deeper connections (to the extent possible, which honestly, with DD, is not very deep because her maturity level is pretty low) with the nice girls who are easy for her to interact with.

I really appreciate your replies. And 13:41 PP, ((((((((hugs)))))))))))

Thanks. Same to you.

I'm 13:41... I just read your other thread. I did want to echo what others said - we also have a therapist who DD sees sort of in spurts when she feels the need. She has been really helpful in working on social skills and helping her see social scenarios in context. (Some of the same things I tell her, but it's better received coming from someone else.) She's also a more neutral party - I tend to focus on the areas where DD needs work and she often will remind her that she deserves kindness and loyalty exactly as she is, which helps her self-esteem. (I'm always in "how do we fix this" mode.)

We have done some social skills classes when she was the same age as your DD. They were somewhat helpful - a lot of that effectiveness, IMO depends on the therapist and the mix of kids in the group.

Hi, OP here. Thanks for your replies. So the thing is, she does have other girls to sit with. She has several really nice, accepting girls who she knows from elementary school, soccer, etc., and they are all very friendly to her. Two of them were at this same bat mitzvah on Saturday and the three girls had a very nice time together. And she went to the birthday party of another girl last night who again, is nice and kind and wants to be social with DD. I agree with all of you who said if the option is sitting with the mean girls or sitting alone, I wouldn't broach the conversation. But it's a case of sitting with the mean girls, or making deeper connections (to the extent possible, which honestly, with DD, is not very deep because her maturity level is pretty low) with the nice girls who are easy for her to interact with.

I really appreciate your replies. And 13:41 PP, ((((((((hugs)))))))))))

I spent most of 6th grade sitting with the mean girls. My BFF had changed schools, the social scene changed, and I really didn't have any place else to go. My option was sitting with the mean girls (who were at least kind enough to not overtly kick me out) or sitting by myself. In the horrible world of 6th grade, sitting with girls who don't like you is a hell of a lot better than sitting all by yourself.
By 7th grade, I had found my peeps again, and things got a lot better.

Which is to say, I don't see a lot of benefit in telling her not to sit with them. As the teacher above said, help her find her tribe and then she'll naturally go there. But telling her to leave these girls when she doesn't have anywhere else to go is a recipe for real misery.

My DD is in this almost identical scenario, except older grades. I have tried to drop hints that she is being left out of things and although she didn't see it at all at first, she is starting to get that. (And is understandably very upset.) She is willing, however, to keep sitting there because she doesn't know where else to go. Sitting with girls who aren't being inclusive (and actually, are being somewhat mean) is better in her mind than being adrift without a group to sit with.

We spend a lot of time talking about friendship and how true friends act and the importance of loyalty. (DD is also a very black and white thinker, so it can be hard for her to see that there are other girls who would be better friends because even though they may have less in common, they are more accepting.)

Planting the seed has been the best way to go with my DD. She does eventually see what's happening as I point things out. (This is not the first time we've been down this road, unfortunately.) I also try to suggest alternatives and have her start thinking in that mode. So she can eventually switch off the "there's no where else to go" and get to the "maybe I can try this" stage. It takes time and she needs to get there herself but guiding her down that path isn't helicoptering, it's just assisting with social skills that come more naturally to some kids than others.

As a teacher, I would advise you to work hard on developing her other relationships, and hope that she naturally gravitates towards those kids, but I'd stay out of lunch room situation if she's not seeking your support on this issue.

It may be that your daughter is included in the lunch table conversation, even if she's not included outside of school, and it may be that she'd prefer that to sitting alone.

It's become very clear that my 6th grade DD's former elementary BFF really wants nothing to do with her. They don't spend any time together outside of school, and that's fine. Friends grow apart, it's normal for middle school, yadda yadda yadda. The BFF has been taken in by the "cool" girls crowd, and my DD is not by any means able to hang with that crowd. She's a wonderful person, but she has ADHD and has some social awkwardness, tics, etc. She does have some friends, though making and keeping friends has always been an issue for her.

Here's my problem: She told me she still sits with former BFF and all of the BFF's friends at lunch. I saw for myself this weekend at a bat mitzvah how former BFF really completely ignores my DD. Like, it's not just that she's only marginally friendly to her and doesn't spend time with her outside of school, but she out-and-out ignores her. Which again, it is what it is. The BFF has no responsibility to my child.

Here's my question: Is it helicoptering for me to outright explain to my DD that she is doing herself a major disservice by sitting with these girls at lunch. My guess is that they all ignore her and that she's just making things worse by sitting there. I know (because I monitor her instagram and musically accounts) that these girls all hang out together a lot. A LOT. And my DD is never invited (again, not their responsibility to include her). I'm now imaging really awkward lunchtime situations where DD is sitting there, and the other girls are annoyed with her being there, but don't say anything. Because of her ADHD, she doesn't always recognize social signals the way other girls would, and that is the biggest issue. If she's not recognizing it for herself, should I and my DH step in and have what is sure to be a very sad and hard conversation? Or should we let her figure this one out on her own? I'm all for kids experiencing disappointment and learning hard lessons, but since she has her ADHD to contend with, I feel like it's not a fair fight, you know?

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm the same OP who posted the "ADHD, Girls, and Maturity" thread last week, if it matters. Thanks.