pbraverman wrote:Even at the most competitive schools, there are very few kids who have scored in the 95+ percentiles across the board. And, just as Harvard turns away more 2400s than they accept, many of those independent school applicants are not offered spots. The reason is that every school I've ever known will consider scores in the context of other attributes: sibling status, diversity, a potential all-American in soccer or basketball, a student whose acting prowess is nationally recognized as early as eighth grade, or a kid whose charm is simply off the charts. Those aren't "invented" examples: I've worked with all of those kids. Schools will also turn down kids who are very obnoxious, or who have very obnoxious parents, no matter the test scores. I've seen that too, unfortunately.

Where does that leave the majority of students--good kids with good scores and normal parents who are not future all-Americans or Broadway-bound? Is high school entry still the kind of glorified lottery that pre-K admission seems to be?

pbraverman wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what do you mean she did not get any acceptance?
Did they give you guys a reason?
How was her grade at school?

She was in an alternative school and didn't have grades. Solid recommendations and we didn't need Financial Aid. But it wasn't an expansion year so we are trying again for sixth grade.

Good call. In most cases coming back is seen as a positive. Good luck!
Peter

Hope thats the case because we are doing the same-I suspect similar grade/school. My child's scores aren't strong but I am hoping strong transcript, recs and visit will overshadow. This time we are opening up and applying to several schools in addition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what do you mean she did not get any acceptance?
Did they give you guys a reason?
How was her grade at school?

She was in an alternative school and didn't have grades. Solid recommendations and we didn't need Financial Aid. But it wasn't an expansion year so we are trying again for sixth grade.

Good call. In most cases coming back is seen as a positive. Good luck!
Peter

Anonymous wrote:what do you mean she did not get any acceptance?
Did they give you guys a reason?
How was her grade at school?

She was in an alternative school and didn't have grades. Solid recommendations and we didn't need Financial Aid. But it wasn't an expansion year so we are trying again for sixth grade.

Anonymous wrote:

pbraverman wrote:I've seen several kids with every sub-score above the 95th percentile.

Only "several"? Do you believe that your sample is representative of the applicant pool, or is it possible that families with kids who score very highly are less likely to seek admissions counseling?

I take your point that kids with stratospheric scores may seem less in need of counseling than mere mortals, but testing is only one aspect of an applicant's profile and schools recognize this. Some emphasize testing more than others, of course.

To answer your question directly: My sample has not been subjected to rigorous statistical analysis, but yes, I think it's representative. Before I launched my own firm, I worked in a school, where I counseled hundreds of students applying to high school (meaning 90+ percent of each eighth grade). That includes students who had percentile scores in the upper 90s and scores in the single digits. I don't know for sure how many there were who ran the table, but I'd guess between 12 and 20 over a dozen years.

Even at the most competitive schools, there are very few kids who have scored in the 95+ percentiles across the board. And, just as Harvard turns away more 2400s than they accept, many of those independent school applicants are not offered spots. The reason is that every school I've ever known will consider scores in the context of other attributes: sibling status, diversity, a potential all-American in soccer or basketball, a student whose acting prowess is nationally recognized as early as eighth grade, or a kid whose charm is simply off the charts. Those aren't "invented" examples: I've worked with all of those kids. Schools will also turn down kids who are very obnoxious, or who have very obnoxious parents, no matter the test scores. I've seen that too, unfortunately.

There are just so many factors, and I think we tend to reach for the false certainty implied by numbers, which are easily compared. (Obviously 50 is better than 40. But in the long run that difference doesn't really matter much, if at all, to an admission officer.) There is no formula.

Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

On ISEE , it shows how many questions you answered correctly, how many you skipped and how many were wrong

pbraverman wrote:I've seen several kids with every sub-score above the 95th percentile.

Only "several"? Do you believe that your sample is representative of the applicant pool, or is it possible that families with kids who score very highly are less likely to seek admissions counseling?

Anonymous wrote:Middle Level exam this fall DD scored 95 overall, 89 verbal, 90 math, 97 reading comp. Last year on Elementary Level she did 98 overalll, 98 verbal, 99 math, 75 reading comp.

No idea how to answer your questions but I think DD did very well. However, she did not get any acceptances. So, scores aren't everything.

These are not scores, these are the percentiles, compared to the averages of children the same grade and gender who took the test over the last three years. The scoring itself is not all that transparent. There is a raw score, which translates to a scaled score with a a possible overall range of 440-710. You will be provided your child's scaled score for the total and for each sub-test and what percentile each is in compared to the average score and within the scaled score range. Since I never took any of the webinars, I do not know how the raw score (for instance, how many correct, how many wrong, how many answered out of the 50 total quantitative questions) translates to the scaled scored. I believe each kind of questions gets a certain number of points.

What does matter, in the end, is the total score and the percentile that puts your child in. Which is why there is confusion on this board with people thinking that their percentile is their score--it's neither a score, nor a percentage.

Anonymous wrote:Look at the percentile score.

+1

As somebody who's counseled hundreds of students applying, I find the percentiles most helpful. Remember that these tests are taken ONLY by kids applying to independent schools, so the percentiles will be out of whack compared to a national scale. Your child's 48th percentile would be closer to 80th in a national sample, but 48 is probably pretty valid in the pool of applicants with whom he or she is applying.

I would be careful about assuming there is a "minimum" score, or that very high scores always lead to admission. In my experience, it is simply not true that the most competitive schools won't admit kids with scores below the 50th percentile – but in those cases there are mitigating factors important to the school, including family associations, diversity, sports, truly outstanding teacher recommendations, and so forth.

I've seen several kids with every sub-score above the 95th percentile. I've seen a few with scores like that who were denied for various reasons that I understood. I've seen kids with scores ranging from the teens to the mid-40s who were admitted at some of the most competitive schools in DC. There is no formula that guarantees admission, but there are ways to put together an application that emphasize strengths and mitigate weaknesses. Ultimately, especially as you climb the grades toward high school, who your child is will be more important than his or her scores.

Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

what do you mean she did not get any acceptance?
Did they give you guys a reason?
How was her grade at school?

Middle Level exam this fall DD scored 95 overall, 89 verbal, 90 math, 97 reading comp. Last year on Elementary Level she did 98 overalll, 98 verbal, 99 math, 75 reading comp.

No idea how to answer your questions but I think DD did very well. However, she did not get any acceptances. So, scores aren't everything.

Anonymous wrote:The higher the better. Take some webinars offered by both of them. They are free and offered almost weekly. people score from 0-99% obviously.

Look at the percentile score.

The higher the better. Take some webinars offered by both of them. They are free and offered almost weekly. people score from 0-99% obviously.

What would be excellent scores? What are the highest scores you have ever heard of?

TIA