Anonymous
12/18/2016 18:07
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
Anonymous wrote:OP -- I hear you. I have this very child. The advice I got from a CBT therapist was that we couldn't make our child feel the feelings but he had to take the appropriate actions.
So, he doesn't need to love human beings, but he needs to say 'good morning." He doesn't understand why we have to give a bday gift to friends, but we do it. He has to sign the card. He has to be polite. He has to go through the motions until they become second nature.
You will have to remind the child almost daily to do the little things. It just doesn't come naturally. It hurts my feelings as well. I get really down about this sometimes too. I could drop dead tomorrow and my child would probably be most concerned with who is going to make his lunch. :/
OP checking back. OMG, you nailed it! I both laughed and cried reading this. That would so be my older son at my funeral. It breaks my heart to think of how panicked he would be until he found out who will do X,Y and Z for him!
I really appreciate so many of these posts. It gave me hope to read the post about the girl on the spectrum who shows gratitude. I agree we have to spell things out and even have "rules" for things like birthdays, holidays, etc.
We do have him in a social skills group, but didn't know there are social etiquette groups too. Where do I find that? I assume this isn't something where he has to wear a suit and tie -I think that is called cattilian or something? I think he'd be kicked out of that based on what other parents have shared with me.
Thank you for these posts from all the people who get it. I know parenting is a selfless endeavor, but sometimes spectrum parenting wares me down. I got time to exercise and am back up between the exercise and reading the helpful responses. Thank you!
Anonymous
12/18/2016 18:03
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
Anonymous wrote:PP -- it is clear that you don't understand how deeply the lack of empathy is in some ASD kids. I'm the ASD mom who said that my kid wouldn't miss me if I die. I may be exaggerating ever so slightly... because I think he couldn't have meant it when he told me he wouldn't miss me when I die. He was 4 years old.
The lack of connection that happens for some ASD kids is shocking, sad and real. I'm glad it's not real for you. :/
This really isn't a lack of empathy. Behavior serves a purpose. A child on the spectrum will say outrageous statements b/c it stems from their anxieties, their inability to exert control, and their attempt for attention. Saying something shocking is meant to provoke a response.
OP, please stop comparing your kids. Moms always get more of the brunt of ingratitude, but you're looking for a specific type of response that may or may evolve. Continue to model appropriate behavior. Prompt your child to model appropriate behavior, e.g., saying please and thank you.
You're conflating his negative reactions with ingratitude. He's not being ungrateful. He is being autistic when the world shatters b/c you forgot his spoon or napkin. Read Unstuck and On Target and learn to coach him when situations don't go as "expected," to distinguish between a big or little deal, and to make a Plan B.
Also, I'm wondering if your DH will teach my NT DH to appreciate me--buy b-day cards or gifts spontaneously buy me flowers. You know some people just aren't wired that way and they're not all on the spectrum.
Anonymous
12/18/2016 17:09
Subject: Re:Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
. Hit send too soon. This is what we did for our HFA son.Anonymous wrote:He can be taught the social protocols and to fake it until he makes it. Etiquette class can be helpful too. Talk to your DH and tell him he needs to take the leads and teach your son how to appreciate his mother, take him out to buy you a holiday gift, birthday gift & cRd, Mother's Day card......
Anonymous
12/18/2016 17:08
Subject: Re:Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
He can be taught the social protocols and to fake it until he makes it. Etiquette class can be helpful too. Talk to your DH and tell him he needs to take the leads and teach your son how to appreciate his mother, take him out to buy you a holiday gift, birthday gift & cRd, Mother's Day card......
Anonymous
12/18/2016 16:58
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
Can you teach your son to do things for you that you like? Like make your coffee, buy flowers, etc?
Anonymous
12/18/2016 16:55
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations you have, even if your child were NT and highly empathetic, are kind of unrealistic.
Very few children express gratitude to their parents on a regular basis. I can't think of any who do. The fantasy you relate of being thanked for taking care of your child while he/she is sick is almost laughable.
OP, really, this is not the way real children act. It has nothing to do with HFA. Children, real children, do not thank their parents for parenting them.
Your expectations are so over the top here that they are almost beyond belief.
You should not be commenting on this forum. Parenting a child with autism is nothing like parenting a neurotypical child.
Anonymous
12/18/2016 16:54
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
PP -- it is clear that you don't understand how deeply the lack of empathy is in some ASD kids. I'm the ASD mom who said that my kid wouldn't miss me if I die. I may be exaggerating ever so slightly... because I think he couldn't have meant it when he told me he wouldn't miss me when I die. He was 4 years old.
The lack of connection that happens for some ASD kids is shocking, sad and real. I'm glad it's not real for you. :/
The lack of connection that happens for some ASD kids is shocking, sad and real. I'm glad it's not real for you. :/
Anonymous
12/18/2016 16:39
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
I think the expectations you have, even if your child were NT and highly empathetic, are kind of unrealistic.
Very few children express gratitude to their parents on a regular basis. I can't think of any who do. The fantasy you relate of being thanked for taking care of your child while he/she is sick is almost laughable.
OP, really, this is not the way real children act. It has nothing to do with HFA. Children, real children, do not thank their parents for parenting them.
Your expectations are so over the top here that they are almost beyond belief.
Very few children express gratitude to their parents on a regular basis. I can't think of any who do. The fantasy you relate of being thanked for taking care of your child while he/she is sick is almost laughable.
OP, really, this is not the way real children act. It has nothing to do with HFA. Children, real children, do not thank their parents for parenting them.
Your expectations are so over the top here that they are almost beyond belief.
Anonymous
12/18/2016 15:23
Subject: Re:Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
Hi, Op
Just wanted to say it is possible to teach gratitude to your HFA child. My DD who has HFA is very thoughtful and is always saying thank you when we do something for her. She is the one who makes the Mother's day or Father's day card, not my NT child. Maybe it is because she read a lot of fiction ( something that I was told is unusual in itself)
I don't want you to think my kid is better than your son or we are superior ( we aren't) but, just wanted to give you hope. She wasn't always like that but, unfortunately when you are in the trenches you can't see the small changes.
Good luck!
Just wanted to say it is possible to teach gratitude to your HFA child. My DD who has HFA is very thoughtful and is always saying thank you when we do something for her. She is the one who makes the Mother's day or Father's day card, not my NT child. Maybe it is because she read a lot of fiction ( something that I was told is unusual in itself)
I don't want you to think my kid is better than your son or we are superior ( we aren't) but, just wanted to give you hope. She wasn't always like that but, unfortunately when you are in the trenches you can't see the small changes.
Good luck!
Anonymous
12/18/2016 14:58
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
OP -- I hear you. I have this very child. The advice I got from a CBT therapist was that we couldn't make our child feel the feelings but he had to take the appropriate actions.
So, he doesn't need to love human beings, but he needs to say 'good morning." He doesn't understand why we have to give a bday gift to friends, but we do it. He has to sign the card. He has to be polite. He has to go through the motions until they become second nature.
You will have to remind the child almost daily to do the little things. It just doesn't come naturally. It hurts my feelings as well. I get really down about this sometimes too. I could drop dead tomorrow and my child would probably be most concerned with who is going to make his lunch. :/
So, he doesn't need to love human beings, but he needs to say 'good morning." He doesn't understand why we have to give a bday gift to friends, but we do it. He has to sign the card. He has to be polite. He has to go through the motions until they become second nature.
You will have to remind the child almost daily to do the little things. It just doesn't come naturally. It hurts my feelings as well. I get really down about this sometimes too. I could drop dead tomorrow and my child would probably be most concerned with who is going to make his lunch. :/
Anonymous
12/18/2016 14:29
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
The gift that DH needs to give you is to teach DS to appreciate his mom.
That may be as simple as stopping at the grocery store and buying flowers and having DS give them to you. Prompting DS to tell you he loves you etc. DH needs to give DS the words and actions he needs to express appreciation. Your son doesn't know what to do or how to do it. DH needs to teach him.
That may be as simple as stopping at the grocery store and buying flowers and having DS give them to you. Prompting DS to tell you he loves you etc. DH needs to give DS the words and actions he needs to express appreciation. Your son doesn't know what to do or how to do it. DH needs to teach him.
Anonymous
12/18/2016 14:25
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
OP again. I think I find it so uncomfortable because I feel like some elderly lady playing the martyr roll. My expectations are really low and easy to meet though for this child-a thank you here and there without prompting and a 2 sentence note on a special day that does not include grievances.
Anonymous
12/18/2016 14:22
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: I teach my children gratitude. We model gratitude in how we show it to others. We insist they do things like write thank you notes and cards and often I need to give my son with autism the words because it isn't programmed in. It hasn't become habit for him and I am wondering if the program will ever stick.
Parenting in general is well described with the metaphor of the giving tree, but I do think with most NT at some point there will be genuine gratitude expressed even if it's just a little "thank you for taking care of me when I was sick." I see it with my own NT child. I am starting to feel like with my child with autism, I will always be expected to give and protect and he will never get it. He is high functioning in many ways, but not emotional intelligence and I understand I cannot blame for the disability. To him I exist to meet his needs and I don't have needs of my own. . The smile, one of the few reinforcements I get, is because I know how best to do these things for him and his love for me is about me meeting his every need.
By a certain age I think most kids can continue to show love even if a parent accidentally forgets to pack a napkin in the lunchbox. In my son's eyes, I have disrupted his order and he is angry. He gets over it and does forgive, but I don't think he will ever understand my role and what goes into it.
As I ramble I also realize my husband does get to receive some of the programming. DS can show more love toward him freely without prompting. DH is a great guy and deserves that. I know this happens with even NT kids, but the expectations my son has of me are a mile high and with my husband they are much fewer and he is more forgiving.
Why am I writing this? I am feeling burnt out and I guess mourning and accepting the fact my role is giver and may not ever be receiver with him.
You need to talk to your husband and he needs to address this with your son. You son can't learn these types of social skills by observation and can't intuit them. He can learn them by instruction, though. Your husband needs to teach your child how to show gratitude towards his mother.
Yeah, as awkward as it feels, I need to have this talk with DH again. I did have this talk after Mother's day. I got a lovely note from our younger son with a drawing. Our older son thought it was Festivas and he aired all his grievances that included things like moving his legos, not packing his favorite snack enough, etc. He then signed it "Sincerely" As selfish as it feels to demand appreciation, I had to tell my husband to check the notes and help DC say appropriate things BEFORE it is given. DH said he looked at it and told him he had to change it, and he yelled at him and said it was mean but left it at that. I explained that it's not worthy of yelling. Part of his disability is the challenge with empathy and while I as his mother will still be there for him no matter what, if he does this sort of thing with peers it is not going to go over well. It's a social skills activity. The one time DH reinforced it well on a birthday he then told me he had to give DS all the words. Did I need to hear that? Grrrr. DH is a good guy with friends, but I almost wonder if he has a tiny dollop of the social thing. He feels terrible if I am upset, but it doesn't occur to him that getting a list of grievances on a special day is worse than getting nothing from a child.
Anonymous
12/18/2016 13:55
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
Anonymous wrote: I teach my children gratitude. We model gratitude in how we show it to others. We insist they do things like write thank you notes and cards and often I need to give my son with autism the words because it isn't programmed in. It hasn't become habit for him and I am wondering if the program will ever stick.
Parenting in general is well described with the metaphor of the giving tree, but I do think with most NT at some point there will be genuine gratitude expressed even if it's just a little "thank you for taking care of me when I was sick." I see it with my own NT child. I am starting to feel like with my child with autism, I will always be expected to give and protect and he will never get it. He is high functioning in many ways, but not emotional intelligence and I understand I cannot blame for the disability. To him I exist to meet his needs and I don't have needs of my own. . The smile, one of the few reinforcements I get, is because I know how best to do these things for him and his love for me is about me meeting his every need.
By a certain age I think most kids can continue to show love even if a parent accidentally forgets to pack a napkin in the lunchbox. In my son's eyes, I have disrupted his order and he is angry. He gets over it and does forgive, but I don't think he will ever understand my role and what goes into it.
As I ramble I also realize my husband does get to receive some of the programming. DS can show more love toward him freely without prompting. DH is a great guy and deserves that. I know this happens with even NT kids, but the expectations my son has of me are a mile high and with my husband they are much fewer and he is more forgiving.
Why am I writing this? I am feeling burnt out and I guess mourning and accepting the fact my role is giver and may not ever be receiver with him.
You need to talk to your husband and he needs to address this with your son. You son can't learn these types of social skills by observation and can't intuit them. He can learn them by instruction, though. Your husband needs to teach your child how to show gratitude towards his mother.
Anonymous
12/18/2016 13:51
Subject: Giving Tree and Accepting Child with Autism may Never be Grateful
I teach my children gratitude. We model gratitude in how we show it to others. We insist they do things like write thank you notes and cards and often I need to give my son with autism the words because it isn't programmed in. It hasn't become habit for him and I am wondering if the program will ever stick.
Parenting in general is well described with the metaphor of the giving tree, but I do think with most NT at some point there will be genuine gratitude expressed even if it's just a little "thank you for taking care of me when I was sick." I see it with my own NT child. I am starting to feel like with my child with autism, I will always be expected to give and protect and he will never get it. He is high functioning in many ways, but not emotional intelligence and I understand I cannot blame for the disability. To him I exist to meet his needs and I don't have needs of my own. . The smile, one of the few reinforcements I get, is because I know how best to do these things for him and his love for me is about me meeting his every need.
By a certain age I think most kids can continue to show love even if a parent accidentally forgets to pack a napkin in the lunchbox. In my son's eyes, I have disrupted his order and he is angry. He gets over it and does forgive, but I don't think he will ever understand my role and what goes into it.
As I ramble I also realize my husband does get to receive some of the programming. DS can show more love toward him freely without prompting. DH is a great guy and deserves that. I know this happens with even NT kids, but the expectations my son has of me are a mile high and with my husband they are much fewer and he is more forgiving.
Why am I writing this? I am feeling burnt out and I guess mourning and accepting the fact my role is giver and may not ever be receiver with him.
Parenting in general is well described with the metaphor of the giving tree, but I do think with most NT at some point there will be genuine gratitude expressed even if it's just a little "thank you for taking care of me when I was sick." I see it with my own NT child. I am starting to feel like with my child with autism, I will always be expected to give and protect and he will never get it. He is high functioning in many ways, but not emotional intelligence and I understand I cannot blame for the disability. To him I exist to meet his needs and I don't have needs of my own. . The smile, one of the few reinforcements I get, is because I know how best to do these things for him and his love for me is about me meeting his every need.
By a certain age I think most kids can continue to show love even if a parent accidentally forgets to pack a napkin in the lunchbox. In my son's eyes, I have disrupted his order and he is angry. He gets over it and does forgive, but I don't think he will ever understand my role and what goes into it.
As I ramble I also realize my husband does get to receive some of the programming. DS can show more love toward him freely without prompting. DH is a great guy and deserves that. I know this happens with even NT kids, but the expectations my son has of me are a mile high and with my husband they are much fewer and he is more forgiving.
Why am I writing this? I am feeling burnt out and I guess mourning and accepting the fact my role is giver and may not ever be receiver with him.