Anonymous wrote:The other thing to consider beyond the onset of puberty, is that thoughts fuel feelings which can lead to actions in sometimes a vicious cycle. Whether or not your son has long term anxiety and/or ADHD, he might benefit from short term counseling to help him understand and manage his feelings.

Say something doesn't go his way at school or home. He might get annoyed and stomp off. But he keeps thinking about this "injustice," and keeps getting more angry, so instead of being able to address it in a constructive way, the path of least resistance is to throw things, etc. He's escalating his behavior.

My kid has ADHD and we did the Unstuck and On Target social skills class at Ivymount. You could order the book on Amazon. The research for the curriculum is based on kids with autism, however, the techniques work with pretty much all kids--how to keep perspective and make a plan B:
https://www.amazon.com/Solving-Executive-Function-Challenges-Unstuck/dp/1598576038/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1481557952&sr=1-2&keywords=unstuck+and+on+target

Executive functioning is affected by puberty alone, so what you're experiencing might be a relatively short lived phase.

Can you tell if the course helped?

Anonymous wrote:It's funny how similar it is to our situation. VERY. I have read the books, no help. My conclusion is that DC just needs to mature to learn how not to be a jerk. I wish i could speed this process up.

Have you tried therapy? Not sure how old your DC is but sometimes therapy for the parents is more helpful than for the kid.

www.livesinthebalance.org

Its by Dr. Ross Greene, author of The Explosive Child. You can read the book if you want, but I found it more useful to watch the videos and listen to podcasts on the website. There are also CBT kind of books like "When your Temper Flares" out there. Maybe you would get some use out of them. I didn't.

It's funny how similar it is to our situation. VERY. I have read the books, no help. My conclusion is that DC just needs to mature to learn how not to be a jerk. I wish i could speed this process up.

The other thing to consider beyond the onset of puberty, is that thoughts fuel feelings which can lead to actions in sometimes a vicious cycle. Whether or not your son has long term anxiety and/or ADHD, he might benefit from short term counseling to help him understand and manage his feelings.

Say something doesn't go his way at school or home. He might get annoyed and stomp off. But he keeps thinking about this "injustice," and keeps getting more angry, so instead of being able to address it in a constructive way, the path of least resistance is to throw things, etc. He's escalating his behavior.

My kid has ADHD and we did the Unstuck and On Target social skills class at Ivymount. You could order the book on Amazon. The research for the curriculum is based on kids with autism, however, the techniques work with pretty much all kids--how to keep perspective and make a plan B:
https://www.amazon.com/Solving-Executive-Function-Challenges-Unstuck/dp/1598576038/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1481557952&sr=1-2&keywords=unstuck+and+on+target

Executive functioning is affected by puberty alone, so what you're experiencing might be a relatively short lived phase.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually anger like that is a symptom of something else - anxiety or a learning issue, etc. I agree with counseling for you and for him, because how you react to these episodes is key and helping you may be more effective at this point. There is also a great book called The Explosive Child that was a game changer for us.

We also took a class with Dr. Shapiro who is fantastic: http://www.parentchildjourney.com/journey/ and he just released a book which I'm sure is mentioned on his website.

If you need specific recs for a therapist, you might try the Special Needs Forum.

Thank you so much for this response. We suspect that DS may have ADD, but we had him evaluated by his pediatrician using the Vanderbilt assessment and only our questionnaires showed anything. His teachers did not rate him as ADD so the pediatrician did not give him a diagnosis. I suspect that these things are connected and that there's more going on but I don't know quite what way to go. I'll check out the link and the books.

I suspected ADHD for my DD as well and had her assessed with Vanderbilt scales at this age. The teachers also did not see any issues even though to me there was clearly a problem. When she got to high school, she became quickly overwhelmed with a difficult course load and ADHD meds made all the difference. In retrospect, I wish we had done a full round of neuropsych testing at first, even if she didn't need medication until later. (It definitely affected her socially long before academically.)

Following your post, as I have the same issues at home with my 12 year old son.

OP, another vote here for (1) more extensive evaluation of your son for possible ADD and (2) detailed assessment of your son's mental health by whoever is the appropriate medical professional.

Regardless of whether he has ADD, he may have anger management issues that need therapy or counseling. The fact he cannot calm down or come down from anger, and is so intense in his anger, sounds strikingly like my friend's child, who from a young age would be fine for long periods but then be triggered and "rage" to the point she was thrashing around. Turned out she had several different mental health issues that have required treatment for years now.

I'm not saying your son will have issue as serious as hers, but I am saying that the earlier you get doctors involved and work on this, the better; your son at 10 should be past the kind of extended bouts of anger you describe. And you and your husband can get very good advice by being in family therapy yourselves, so you know how to navigate your son's anger episodes.

He is very close to puberty and everything is much, much harder to diagnose and treat as kids get into puberty and teen years -- they're more aware of what's being thought and said about them, and they realize they're being looked on as possibly having a problem; so they sometimes resist treatment, or tell doctors and parents what they think the adults want to hear, etc. Another friend is going through that with an older teen son who needs treatment.

Anonymous wrote:He probably has anxieties. Kids with anxieties are so close to the edge of freaking out it is hard for them to control it.

You can probably take him to a therapist who can teach him how to recognize his anxiety and breath through it. My son did this at 8-9 and he met with the therapist about 8 times.

Also there are meditation apps that can help an anxious person bring their anxiety levels down so when something does happen they can more easily control their reactions.

Also puberty may be hitting which might complicate things.

Diet, exercise, breathing, sleep...

I don't think punishing really works. When he freaks out you should sit with him reading a magazine (not really but not giving him attention) and say supportive comments like...

is there anything I can do to help
I am sorry you are feeling this way
Can i help you
etc...

then when it is over say, I am happy you were able to calm yourself down and hug him.

(There is a better explanation in the thread about the 5 year old, I will try to find it and link it.)

This really resonated with me. I don't think I had really thought about it in terms of anxiety, but it makes a lot of sense and it's making other pieces of the puzzle clink into place. This is definitely something we will explore.

Another book recommendation -- The Whole-Brained Child. It sounds like what this book calls a "downstairs brain" tantrum. As you've no doubt found, engaging rationally in the midst of a downstairs brain tantrum just doesn't work. The best bet is to engage emotionally or be present but not engaged until he's under control and only then try to engage rationally. Once he is calm, whether immediately after or later, you can try some of the techniques from The Explosive Child to understand what the triggers were.

I'll be following this thread closely as we have a similar issue - with a similar personality kid. DS is 8 and has these outbursts too. A friend just gave me The Explosive Child. We'll have a four quiet days and then an outburst. The book says we should anticipate what will set him off but we often can't. So no advice to you, OP, but commiseration.

He probably has anxieties. Kids with anxieties are so close to the edge of freaking out it is hard for them to control it.

You can probably take him to a therapist who can teach him how to recognize his anxiety and breath through it. My son did this at 8-9 and he met with the therapist about 8 times.

Also there are meditation apps that can help an anxious person bring their anxiety levels down so when something does happen they can more easily control their reactions.

Also puberty may be hitting which might complicate things.

Diet, exercise, breathing, sleep...

I don't think punishing really works. When he freaks out you should sit with him reading a magazine (not really but not giving him attention) and say supportive comments like...

is there anything I can do to help
I am sorry you are feeling this way
Can i help you
etc...

then when it is over say, I am happy you were able to calm yourself down and hug him.

(There is a better explanation in the thread about the 5 year old, I will try to find it and link it.)

Anonymous wrote:Usually anger like that is a symptom of something else - anxiety or a learning issue, etc. I agree with counseling for you and for him, because how you react to these episodes is key and helping you may be more effective at this point. There is also a great book called The Explosive Child that was a game changer for us.

We also took a class with Dr. Shapiro who is fantastic: http://www.parentchildjourney.com/journey/ and he just released a book which I'm sure is mentioned on his website.

If you need specific recs for a therapist, you might try the Special Needs Forum.

Thank you so much for this response. We suspect that DS may have ADD, but we had him evaluated by his pediatrician using the Vanderbilt assessment and only our questionnaires showed anything. His teachers did not rate him as ADD so the pediatrician did not give him a diagnosis. I suspect that these things are connected and that there's more going on but I don't know quite what way to go. I'll check out the link and the books.

Usually anger like that is a symptom of something else - anxiety or a learning issue, etc. I agree with counseling for you and for him, because how you react to these episodes is key and helping you may be more effective at this point. There is also a great book called The Explosive Child that was a game changer for us.

We also took a class with Dr. Shapiro who is fantastic: http://www.parentchildjourney.com/journey/ and he just released a book which I'm sure is mentioned on his website.

If you need specific recs for a therapist, you might try the Special Needs Forum.

My 10 y/o DS is a happy, calm, and sweet-natured child 90% of the time. He does well in school, is popular and well liked by his peers and teachers. He never has any behavioral issues at school, camp, sports, etc. However, on occasion at home, when he feels like something didn't go his way or he is being treated unfairly (in his mind) by us, he gets very angry and has a huge tantrum. This usually consists of yelling, screaming, stomping, throwing things, threatening to break things, slamming doors, sometimes disrespect (he's called me stupid) and once or twice an opportunistic kick at the dog. It seems that once he gets really mad, he cannot calm himself down. He just goes on and on. We try to separate his so he can get himself under control but he keeps coming back or doing things to draw our attention back to him. We try very hard to be calm with him and help him regain control, although I will admit that I do yell back sometimes when I've had enough of it. It seems that no matter how I try to approach him to help him calm down and move on so we can resolve the issue, he just wants to "stay mad" and keep it going. He just does not seem to know how to release that anger and get past it. There is not a lot of conflict in the house, but I am sure that DH and I could do better. We do give him consequences for the things he does in the fit of anger, but I think he just doesn't have the skills he needs to manage these strong emotions. I know he feels badly about the tantrum after it's all over and I worry that it is effecting his self-esteem. I don't know how to handle this and I would like some non-judgmental advice if anyone has something helpful to share. I am considering counseling for all of us.