Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I guess we are not off the hook. What do you all make about the relative weakness of the US on math reasoning? I'm curious what the curriculum implications might be. Common Core standards emphasize reasoning. Singapore Math has tried to bring one of the curriculum that works elsewhere over. One would expect to see a bit of improvement rather than a slide.

Too early to tell? I don't know. Not all states have implemented CC standards, and some only in the last two years, so maybe it's too early for it to really reflect in the math scores?

I'd like to see the results by state and whether that state uses CC standards, and for how long. I know MA was one of the early adopters (and I believe some if not a lot of the standards came from the MA standards) and they typically do well on the PISA test. I know, there are other factors at play here for MA .

Yes, too early. They are testing 15 year olds, right? None of them had any common core in the early years where math reasoning is established. In this area, the current 4th grade is first class of kids to have CC standards and an emphasis on reasoning all the way through (and at least in our school that class is testing off the charts).

Anonymous wrote:Well, I guess we are not off the hook. What do you all make about the relative weakness of the US on math reasoning? I'm curious what the curriculum implications might be. Common Core standards emphasize reasoning. Singapore Math has tried to bring one of the curriculum that works elsewhere over. One would expect to see a bit of improvement rather than a slide.

Too early to tell? I don't know. Not all states have implemented CC standards, and some only in the last two years, so maybe it's too early for it to really reflect in the math scores?

I'd like to see the results by state and whether that state uses CC standards, and for how long. I know MA was one of the early adopters (and I believe some if not a lot of the standards came from the MA standards) and they typically do well on the PISA test. I know, there are other factors at play here for MA .

Anonymous wrote:

I'm sure in many countries, the top students are the ones taking this test. The rest of the students are probably enrolled in non-academic tracks. Not so in this country where everyone is supposed to be college and career ready but they've gotten rid of so many vocational programs for high schoolers.

Does anyone know where there is information on how the schools are selected? Are countries allowed to restrict the test to just their college-track schools?

The US saw an 11-point dropThe US saw an 11-point drop

If the US sample and the international samples are not comparable, then this is the more relevant statistics. We've slid in comparison to our own, earlier performance.

There's a comment in the PBS article on the results that is interesting. US students do well on computing answers but really take a hit on questions testing comprehension of underlying comments. Any thoughts on this? I though US math curriculum was moving in a more concept-oriented direction.

This is the problem with how math has been taught in this country. Rote math learning = I can compute the answers, but not "I can apply the concepts".

I have no idea if a curriculum based on Common Core standards will help, but the standards were designed to address this very thing - understanding the concepts rather than just follow the steps.

Well, I guess we are not off the hook. What do you all make about the relative weakness of the US on math reasoning? I'm curious what the curriculum implications might be. Common Core standards emphasize reasoning. Singapore Math has tried to bring one of the curriculum that works elsewhere over. One would expect to see a bit of improvement rather than a slide.

Anonymous wrote:This test is only given to 15 year olds? I'm sure in many countries, the top students are the ones taking this test. The rest of the students are probably enrolled in non-academic tracks. Not so in this country where everyone is supposed to be college and career ready but they've gotten rid of so many vocational programs for high schoolers.

Every time someone offers this up as an excuse. This is from the PISA FAQ "A key objective of PISA is to inform and support education policy decision making within countries. A three-year cycle provides countries with timely information that includes data and analyses to consider the impact of policy decisions and related programs. If it were more frequent it would not allow sufficient time for changes and innovations to show improvement or decline, and if it were less frequent it would mean declines in performance could not be promptly addressed.

The average age of 15 was chosen because at this age young people in most OECD countries are nearing the end of compulsory education. The selection of schools and students is as inclusive as possible, so that the sample of students comes from a broad range of backgrounds and abilities."

In many countries around the world, 15 is the last year of middle school, and the last year of compulsory schooling. High school is often only 3 year and may indeed be voluntary. So the samples are quite comparable across countries.

Anonymous wrote:This test is only given to 15 year olds? I'm sure in many countries, the top students are the ones taking this test. The rest of the students are probably enrolled in non-academic tracks. Not so in this country where everyone is supposed to be college and career ready but they've gotten rid of so many vocational programs for high schoolers.

Wrong facts, wrong assumptions, wrong thinking.

Are you American by any chance, 15 or older? If so, you are living proof of the PISA results.

Anonymous wrote:Canada did very well and all 15 year olds must be enrolled in regular high school like in the US. Canada also has a large immigrant population.

Canada has very little diversity compared to the US and the vast majority of its immigrants are asians.

PISA has a good FAQ. Covers most questions above. https://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisafaq/

Anonymous wrote:Canada did very well and all 15 year olds must be enrolled in regular high school like in the US. Canada also has a large immigrant population.

I think most of their immigrants are Asian though.

Canada did very well and all 15 year olds must be enrolled in regular high school like in the US. Canada also has a large immigrant population.

Anonymous wrote:This test is only given to 15 year olds? I'm sure in many countries, the top students are the ones taking this test. The rest of the students are probably enrolled in non-academic tracks. Not so in this country where everyone is supposed to be college and career ready but they've gotten rid of so many vocational programs for high schoolers.

It would be nice to know the percentage of students who are 15 in each country taking the test and who are the other children whether in vocational programs, private schools, or homeschool.

Anonymous wrote: ... but really take a hit on questions testing comprehension of underlying comments. Any thoughts on this? I though US math curriculum was moving in a more concept-oriented direction.

...err, underlying concepts! darn my poor typing skills.

I'm sure in many countries, the top students are the ones taking this test. The rest of the students are probably enrolled in non-academic tracks. Not so in this country where everyone is supposed to be college and career ready but they've gotten rid of so many vocational programs for high schoolers.

Does anyone know where there is information on how the schools are selected? Are countries allowed to restrict the test to just their college-track schools?

The US saw an 11-point dropThe US saw an 11-point drop

If the US sample and the international samples are not comparable, then this is the more relevant statistics. We've slid in comparison to our own, earlier performance.

There's a comment in the PBS article on the results that is interesting. US students do well on computing answers but really take a hit on questions testing comprehension of underlying comments. Any thoughts on this? I though US math curriculum was moving in a more concept-oriented direction.

This test is only given to 15 year olds? I'm sure in many countries, the top students are the ones taking this test. The rest of the students are probably enrolled in non-academic tracks. Not so in this country where everyone is supposed to be college and career ready but they've gotten rid of so many vocational programs for high schoolers.

"The US saw an 11-point drop in average score for math, while remaining relatively flat in reading and science.

The results again raise questions about the global competitiveness of the US educational system.

On a press call on Tuesday, Jon Schnur, executive chairman of America Achieves, said we need to make dramatic progress in showing educational improvement for students."


http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-of-math-science-reading-skills-2016-12