I can't take sides until I know how much support and help your wife gets. I had a single mom growing up and my dad would tell us all the right things on the phone, but he never had to actually deal with any of the issues we were going through. We saw him every other weekend and he would spoil us rotten, but then sent us back to reality with mom. My mom was a wonderful mother, but she did lose it at times. I do remember a couple bad fights where she told me that I should go and live with my father.

I will always love my father, but my mom was always there through the good and the bad. Now that I am an adult and I have a better idea of what she was dealing with, there is just no way I could hold anything against her. I feel like you are not telling us the whole story. Why was your wife able to get primary custody? In my mother's case my father was an alcoholic.

I agree that if there is any possible way for you to fight for more custody, you should do it. It is worth taking out a loan for.

First, try a more informal method, like the PP mentioned.

Your wife's behavior sounds terribly abusive towards the kids, and it would be very difficult for any of them to stand up on their own and say they want to go live with you. I was in a pretty bad environment when I was a kid, which got worse when I was a teenager. I made the decision to go live with my dad & grandmother, but it was so so very difficult. I felt terribly guilty for leaving my mom, even though she had me in a toxic environment. Thankfully, she did not fight me on it.

Your kids sound like they are in a bad situation. They need you to advocate for them. Try to start getting more time with them, informally. Then reassess.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a loser. If you really love your kids, fight for more custody!

Takes one to know one.

I'm not that poster and wouldn't call him a loser but she is right. Fight for your kids. Take out a loan and get a good lawyer. Go at it solo if you need to. Document everything!!!! Text, phone logs, emails, voice mail, etc

You and the loser commenter are forgetting that, for whatever reason, the kids don't want to stop living with their mother. I agree her behavior is abusive, but changing the situation against the will of the kids will only create more problems.

The mother is making an emotional mess of her relationship with her kids and that's going to bite her in the ass down the road. But to avoid making an emotional mess of the kids themselves, dad needs to create a safe space for them, one that doesn't involve his own agenda for custody. He'll probably get it eventually, but that should be with the kids believing that it's in their best interest, not some other factor they can't control.

Are you located close enough to your XW and the kids' school to take them sometimes during the school week? If you are, then offer to take one or both kids for a week at a time instead of a weekend and see if she just needs a break. Even if she only gets a break once or twice a year, it may reduce her stress enough that she can get back to an even keel when parenting. Sometimes we all just need a break.

Your poor kids.

So what is the custody now? how much time do you have them?

You read as if you have less than 50/50, or you're not willing to have them 50% of the time. Is that the case?

Do they really have a home with you?

I think your kids would benefit from some therapy for how to deal with this. They seem abandoned by all. This threat of their mother to never take them back is extreme and as others have said, abusive. I would start talking to lawyers and therapists now.

Don't go to extremes yet. See if you can offer to take the kids off her hands a couple of nights a week on an informal basis. Document that you are doing it, but don't let her know that, just in case you want to fight her for more custody later.

This isn't about custody or child support in a legal sense. It's about giving your kids the best possible environment. It sounds like she is overwhelmed by having primary custody. You can't do much more than take the kids, and ask her where she needs help with them, i.e., where is the friction between her and the kids that causes her to threaten to throw them out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a loser. If you really love your kids, fight for more custody!

Takes one to know one.

I'm not that poster and wouldn't call him a loser but she is right. Fight for your kids. Take out a loan and get a good lawyer. Go at it solo if you need to. Document everything!!!! Text, phone logs, emails, voice mail, etc

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a loser. If you really love your kids, fight for more custody!

Takes one to know one.

You sound like a loser. If you really love your kids, fight for more custody!

This situation is terribly heartbreaking. I got the same threat from my mother when I was, but I only had to hear it once before I packed everything up and left.

Besides letting the kids know that your home is always open to them, you can learn about and establish active listening. If they're not ready to move away from their mother, they still need an outlet for expressing their feelings in a way that's safe from judgement or retribution.

Google "active listening parenting"

document all of this. you should go back to court to request for full primary custody and only allow her to have supervised visitation.

this is emotional abuse and she is emotionally unhinged. the reasons for this area not important - she's an adult and is responsible for her behavior, actions and words.

Your ex-wife is overextended and cannot cope anymore. Since you need her to be the primary caretaker to your children, I rec ommend that you help her however you can (with time or money) and provide positive reinforcement when you see that she has gotten something right.

It sounds like your ex wife is overwhelmed and cannot cope. That's not entirely her fault (many people do not cope well as single parents) but the children should not be in a situation like that if you can prevent it.

You say you don't want to hear "get custody" advice but that is obviously what you need to do. If she can't handle them effectively, YOU need to step up to the plate. Finances are not a good excuse. If the children come to live with you, you will not have to pay child support anymore. Your ex will have to pay you.

You already know what you need to do. I don't know why you are posting on here rather than speaking to your lawyer.

Keep letting your kids know they will always have a home. Whether with you or their mother.
Let them know that if they ever did live with you, you would do everything possible to ensure they are able to continue to see their mother as often as possible.
Don't criticize her. They will figure out for themselves that what she is doing is terrible.
Offer to take the kids more. Not as an official part of the custody arrangement but to give her time to get her shit together. She must be having a difficult time parenting to resort to such tactics. Not an excuse but perhaps missing the kids would help get her head screwed on straight.

Highly recommend therapy for all involved if that's a possibility. Ex wife needs some positive parenting techniques.

How often do you have the kids and,
How much are you paying in CS? Curious about how much support Ex W has or doesn't have, that she's so unable to cope.

as punishment when she doesn't like how they behave.

She set the groundwork by telling them (repeatedly) that "if you go live with your father, whether it works out for your good or bad, you can never come home again."
Her and the youngest child (8yrs old) are constantly fighting and her solution to this has been to start threatening to send him to live with me 100% of the time. Its a total threat because she isn't serious about it she has been escalating things and on Sunday made him pack his bags and she called me and put the phone on speaker and started saying "finish packing! I've got your father on the phone." He wasn't crying or angry per se... he was simply packing his bags and refusing to talk to his mom. He wasn't defiant towards her he wasn't showing any emotion. Its like he figured he couldn't reason with her so he was just going alone until it blew over.

On Sunday I told my youngest that he always has a home with me. I asked my ex to call me in private because I wanted to talk to her about this but she refused to call me without the kids listening. Eventually she left the house and he called her cell phone and told her that he wanted to stay with her. Then my oldest called me to give me the run-down on what was happening. I spoke with my youngest and he hold me "I'm sorry dad; but I told mom I'm not comfortable moving out." The oldest has mentioned that he might want to move in with me 100% of the time but he is worried about leaving his brother and sister with their mom alone. He is nervous about having a place to live because his mom keeps telling them "you can't come home again." On the one hand I'm sure they know I'm here for them and they can live with me but at the same time hey have this attachment to their mom and are afraid to not being able to go "home" again.


I think what she is doing is abusive. I've told all my children that they are free to come live with me. On Sunday I repeated to each of them that I love them and I asked them to speak respectfully to their mom.

My youngest is always on edge. It only takes the wrong phrase to send him into a massive breakdown. Not always anger. Often its sobbing while he talks about how is feelings are hurt. It really hurts my feelings to see and hear it. She nitpick them and somehow I think the youngest doesn't feel like he is being heard. He lashes out sometimes because he isn't feeling respected. That is about the best I can describe it.

She has difficulty parenting because of how she interacts with the kids. The kids physiologist noted this during the divorce but the court still decided she gets primary custody because she was a SAHM.

Other than "get primary custody of your kids" type advice what can I do to help my kids? I've investigated the "get custody" thing and the divorce wiped me out financially and I really don't have the money to go back into court. The attorneys I've spoken with tell me its not a sure bet and on top of that I don't want to cause a whole other round of conflict between me and the ex it really upset the kids.

What I'm really wanting to know is what my kids need to experience from me in order for them to deal with the situation? Specific actions.... I know they need to feel "love."
Also... does what is happening with my youngest sound like some particular type of reaction to some particular type of abuse situation? I'm curious about this because if it is that might help me figure out what he needs.