Anonymous wrote:NP.
A lot of pp's on here make excellent points about what the reasons might be for lying . forgetfulness, autonomy, fear of consequences - all understandable and probably all come into play for most kids at times. For us, my DH is micromanager, way too heavy handed AND my kid (13 yr old) is forgetful, has anxiety, and fears consequences (that is his father's temper).
If we were to take all of the advice I have seen posted on here honestly I think we would still have problems. When DS gets in trouble at school he lies through his damn teeth to us to convince us that he is "innocent." I KNOW he is lying. This happens way too often, I know my kid and he just not convincing enough when he lies - it is obvious in this context.
DH falls for it though - I know that is another issue entirely! But I think he absolutely should be punished for the wrongdoing and also the lying.
With regards to homework and other responsibilities the consequences of giving him autonomy could be rather serious. So while in theory all of the solutions here make sense I don't know if our problems would be solved so easily.
Sorry did not mean to hijack the post.

Why do you have to be the ones doling out consequences and managing these things?

Misbehavior in school - if he gets caught, he gets a consequence at school. The parents have nothing to do with that, the teacher or principal gives out whatever the consequence is according to the school rules. Don't even bother asking him if he was guilty or innocent since he now has a bad track record of being dishonest. Whatever the school says, you won't fight because he made himself the boy who cried wolf. But, misbehavior at school is being dealt with by the school so maybe doesn't need anything additional at home.

A teen is old enough to understand that to get by in adulthood requires a paying job, all of which require some sort of qualifications & training or education. Screwing up their grades screws up their future, this is easy to understand. His grades, his problem. Don't micromanage the homework. He doesn't need to lie to you about it -- he either does it or doesn't, and takes the grades he earns. Any consequences you have tied to grades either happen or not based on the report card -- no lies necessary because the grades on the page tell all you need to know.

Don't make anything his responsibility unless he is the one who would face the main consequences of upholding or failing to uphold the obligation. Then, he simply gets the outcome he earns for himself. If he's on necessary medication, then, like a young child, he needs to be supervised while taking it because he has shown he can't be trusted. Otherwise, unless he needs to help with the care of a sibling or a pet, I can't think of any responsibility a 13 year old has that would be disastrous to anyone other than himself if he failed to uphold it.

NP.
A lot of pp's on here make excellent points about what the reasons might be for lying . forgetfulness, autonomy, fear of consequences - all understandable and probably all come into play for most kids at times. For us, my DH is micromanager, way too heavy handed AND my kid (13 yr old) is forgetful, has anxiety, and fears consequences (that is his father's temper).
If we were to take all of the advice I have seen posted on here honestly I think we would still have problems. When DS gets in trouble at school he lies through his damn teeth to us to convince us that he is "innocent." I KNOW he is lying. This happens way too often, I know my kid and he just not convincing enough when he lies - it is obvious in this context.
DH falls for it though - I know that is another issue entirely! But I think he absolutely should be punished for the wrongdoing and also the lying.
With regards to homework and other responsibilities the consequences of giving him autonomy could be rather serious. So while in theory all of the solutions here make sense I don't know if our problems would be solved so easily.
Sorry did not mean to hijack the post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:give him more space. isn't this an age when we all started to lie more to our parents?

Of course it's that age. But that doesn't mean parents check out and stop being parents.

It's your job as a parent. Even more, he needs and wants, yes wants, his parents to care enough to continue setting boundaries. Ex-DH checked out and left all the hard parenting to me. My now 18-year-old has thanked me many, many times for caring enough to parent him when he was a pre-teen, and he's complained every few weeks that Ex-DH wasn't what he calls a "role model." I never encourage that talk. But this says to me that even teens still want parental guidance, even if they'd die before telling you.

NP. Maybe some kids do want/need that. But other kids really do want their parents to back off, and would be fine if they did so. That's all I wanted as a teen and now, looking back as an adult raising teens of my own, that's still exactly what I wish my parents had done. I was capable of more or less handling myself by about age 14, and my mother's micromanaging was not necessary, desired, or helpful in any way. I was also a compulsive liar when I was younger; it started when I was a kid and was a habit I had to really work to break as a young adult. Sure, part of the reason was for the thrill of getting away with it and the excitement of being able to make up stories that were 'better' than my real life, but a huge contributor was that I was never good enough at home and rarely permitted to make my own decisions about anything. I would lie as a reflex to avoid getting in trouble with angry parents when I fell short of their standards or had asserted too much independence.

Every kid's needs will be slightly different, as will approaches that work for different families, but being overly controlling can certainly contribute to the sort of situation where kids form a habit of lying.

Anonymous wrote:give him more space. isn't this an age when we all started to lie more to our parents?

Of course it's that age. But that doesn't mean parents check out and stop being parents.

It's your job as a parent. Even more, he needs and wants, yes wants, his parents to care enough to continue setting boundaries. Ex-DH checked out and left all the hard parenting to me. My now 18-year-old has thanked me many, many times for caring enough to parent him when he was a pre-teen, and he's complained every few weeks that Ex-DH wasn't what he calls a "role model." I never encourage that talk. But this says to me that even teens still want parental guidance, even if they'd die before telling you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It sounds to me like your method of dealing with the lies is to guilt him about trust and your relationship and have some sort of talk with him about lying on a philosophical/moral level. OP, that's simply not effective. You need to deal with this on a practical level. If you are catching him in lies about feeding the dogs, that should not be his responsibility anymore -- ever. He's not mature enough for that, and you tell him so. He also loses a privilege or screen time if that's what kept him from feeding the dogs.


What is the scenario in which he has to report to you what shirt he wore on picture day? I'm having trouble seeing what that's about. Also whether he wore running shoes to the gym. I'm not trying to turn this around to be your fault -- I agree he's lying a lot -- but I think perhaps there's an element of "zapping" going on here or too much checking up. Sometimes lying is about autonomy, especially for a 12 year old.

This. You're being too hard on him and holding him to a standard he can't meet, so he's lying. You need to change the standard or change your response when he doesn't meet your standard.

My mom did the same thing to me and I lied. She had an impossible standard. So I lied. Yes, mom I did what you told me....

This. DD has anxiety and her doctor has an orientation for new parents to the practice. The first thing he told us at the orientation is that kids lie. It's a natural response to stressors for people, especially kids, who are impulsive. He also said it only counts as an actual lie if it's planned. Like if your kid does one of those stunts where they arrange an alibi, elaborate cover story, and then sneak off to some event they're not supposed to be at. But being put on the spot and telling a lie to try to please you? Not the same thing and certainly not something to punish. Work on ways to avoid the set up that rewards them for those white lies-stop asking for so many details, stop asking and start making statements, stop checking up on things that don't matter, give more choices, be less critical when he does something other than your preference... Honestly, the less stress you put on your kid, the safer they'll feel emotionally, and the less they'll lie. It's incredibly common, and it can get better. We've lived it

The lying was really annoying. I felt like DD wasn't trustworthy and was establishing bad habits. The advice from her psychologist seemed counterintuitive. But we followed it and it worked like magic. I think there's a study that shows that the more you punish or react to lies, the more kids lie. It really is a stress reaction.

give him more space. isn't this an age when we all started to lie more to our parents?

Maybe the things that are important for you are not important for him (except feeding the dog) and if you get really annoyed at him, he will just say whatever you want him to, as a coping mechanism, which ends up being a lie.

It used to happen to me. My mom wanted me to do my homework in a certain order (always handwriting first) and in 3 languages. I wanted to do my music first because it was easier to read when there was natural light. She would come home and ask me which ones had I finished and I would lie because if she knew I did my music prior to doing my penmanship, she would blow up.
I did get caught several times and of course she had to be a drama queen and call my dad at work and cry that she did not want to raise a liar ...
If you are micromanaging him, stop.

Also, can you explain what you mean by "the more important things" that you have verified and discovered he was lying? The things you mentioned are pretty small scale. Worse thing was not feeding the dog - at my house we have several notes up about feeding our pets bc we have all forgetter it at some point so needed another system.

He sounds like he has a bad memory. Does he get punished a lot for things he sincerely forgot to do? That could feel to him like it isn't fair bc it wasn't malicious on his part. Can you focus on helping with strategies to remember?

Kids lie because they are scared of consequences. Or they have some mental issue, which is it? Sounds like your kid is forgetful and then lies not to get in trouble.

Anonymous wrote:
It sounds to me like your method of dealing with the lies is to guilt him about trust and your relationship and have some sort of talk with him about lying on a philosophical/moral level. OP, that's simply not effective. You need to deal with this on a practical level. If you are catching him in lies about feeding the dogs, that should not be his responsibility anymore -- ever. He's not mature enough for that, and you tell him so. He also loses a privilege or screen time if that's what kept him from feeding the dogs.


What is the scenario in which he has to report to you what shirt he wore on picture day? I'm having trouble seeing what that's about. Also whether he wore running shoes to the gym. I'm not trying to turn this around to be your fault -- I agree he's lying a lot -- but I think perhaps there's an element of "zapping" going on here or too much checking up. Sometimes lying is about autonomy, especially for a 12 year old.

This. You're being too hard on him and holding him to a standard he can't meet, so he's lying. You need to change the standard or change your response when he doesn't meet your standard.

My mom did the same thing to me and I lied. She had an impossible standard. So I lied. Yes, mom I did what you told me....

My son had a lying habit when he was a bit younger than yours. What I ended up doing was telling him that since he lied and I couldn't trust him, he'd have to be with me at all times, unless he was at school, had to go to the bathroom or take a shower. I explained that it is my job to keep him safe and just like when he was a toddler and I couldn't be sure that he was safe if I wasn't watching him, he'd have to be with me. If I was in the kitchen, he'd have to be there with me. If I went to the store, he'd have to go and be right with me. After we did that for a few weeks, then I'd let him try to start to earn the trust to do small things and we built from there. Good luck!

It sounds to me like your method of dealing with the lies is to guilt him about trust and your relationship and have some sort of talk with him about lying on a philosophical/moral level. OP, that's simply not effective. You need to deal with this on a practical level. If you are catching him in lies about feeding the dogs, that should not be his responsibility anymore -- ever. He's not mature enough for that, and you tell him so. He also loses a privilege or screen time if that's what kept him from feeding the dogs.


What is the scenario in which he has to report to you what shirt he wore on picture day? I'm having trouble seeing what that's about. Also whether he wore running shoes to the gym. I'm not trying to turn this around to be your fault -- I agree he's lying a lot -- but I think perhaps there's an element of "zapping" going on here or too much checking up. Sometimes lying is about autonomy, especially for a 12 year old.

Maybe show him what itsilike with the shoe on the other foot? Or ask a counsellor.

Help - really. Please none of the "apple does not fall far from the tree" kind of help.

My 12 year old DS is an only child is well behaved though struggles a bit with school and social stuff has been lying about almost EVERYTHING lately. Everything from feeding the dogs, remembering to bring running shoes to gym, and what shirt he wore the day of school photos. Frankly, I cannot trust him with anything he says anymore. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt and not verify everything he says (to avoid making it seem I do not try to trust him) but every time I randomly verify the more important things - I find out he lied! He has even done this at school with a teacher about forgetting books or homework in the locker.

I try to make it clear that it is unacceptable, I get more upset at the instances when he does something wrong and lies - rather than just does something wrong. I have explained how lying impacts trust in a relationship, and if I cannot trust him I cannot feel comfortable with giving privileges to do special or more mature things he may want to do.


Thoughts on strategies that work? I know that some of this is age appropriate.