doodlebug wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because hipsters are assholes?

Because the gray and rainy weather has sucked the joy out of their lives?

I have a different beef with Seattle: why do they have so many homeless youth? What's wrong with the parents? What's wrong with the culture?

The overwhelming majority of those use were kicked out of their homes in other parts of the country and migrated west due to a) hospitable weather b) hospitable people willing to put up with them and their crime and begging and c) social programs that must be good enough to motivate them to stay vs moving on.

I'm from the NW and haven't noticed any more rudeness in the NW than anywhere else I've lived or visited. Some people are extroverts and will yak your ear off, and some are introverts who get pissy when you yak their ear off and would prefer to be left alone. Same as anywhere else.

Then I hate to tell you- you are probably one of the people being complained about. When your area is renowned for rudeness to the point where there is a catchphrase to explain it (seattle freeze) then... yeah. You have a problem, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

doodlebug wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because hipsters are assholes?

Because the gray and rainy weather has sucked the joy out of their lives?

I have a different beef with Seattle: why do they have so many homeless youth? What's wrong with the parents? What's wrong with the culture?

The overwhelming majority of those use were kicked out of their homes in other parts of the country and migrated west due to a) hospitable weather b) hospitable people willing to put up with them and their crime and begging and c) social programs that must be good enough to motivate them to stay vs moving on.

I'm from the NW and haven't noticed any more rudeness in the NW than anywhere else I've lived or visited. Some people are extroverts and will yak your ear off, and some are introverts who get pissy when you yak their ear off and would prefer to be left alone. Same as anywhere else.

Actually, most are from WA state and the surrounding area.

Anonymous wrote:It's not just rudeness, either; a friend blogged about all of the fake invitations for coffee, hiking, dinner, etc that she received in her first year there. She followed up at first and was almost always brushed off.

This is exactly what I heard from a friend of mine. Promises to do things but no follow through. My friend found it difficult to make true friends and to find a social group. Another friend who is gay found more of a built in community there.

Anonymous wrote:Because hipsters are assholes?

Because the gray and rainy weather has sucked the joy out of their lives?

I have a different beef with Seattle: why do they have so many homeless youth? What's wrong with the parents? What's wrong with the culture?

The overwhelming majority of those use were kicked out of their homes in other parts of the country and migrated west due to a) hospitable weather b) hospitable people willing to put up with them and their crime and begging and c) social programs that must be good enough to motivate them to stay vs moving on.

I'm from the NW and haven't noticed any more rudeness in the NW than anywhere else I've lived or visited. Some people are extroverts and will yak your ear off, and some are introverts who get pissy when you yak their ear off and would prefer to be left alone. Same as anywhere else.

Also, lots of "natives" are of Scandinavian descent. This means a certain amount of superficial friendliness but lots of passive aggressive behavior.

I'm from Seattle originally, Scandinavian descent. Lived in DC 10 years but now live in Minneapolis. This area has a familiar dynamic to home--lots of Scandinavian heritage. Haven't seen this since WA.

Because hipsters are assholes?

Because the gray and rainy weather has sucked the joy out of their lives?

I have a different beef with Seattle: why do they have so many homeless youth? What's wrong with the parents? What's wrong with the culture?

I moved to the Seattle suburbs from Fairfax County 10+ years ago. Seattle has grown tremendously in a decade and is still booming.

It is hard to find people who are native or have lived here for 20+ years. Many arrived from someplace else in the last 10 years - CA, TX, CO and of course various European countries, India, China, Korea etc.... for the high tech companies.

I have found the eastside suburbs to be very similar to Fairfax County. Clicks of mean PTSA moms, competitive co-workers, stressed out SAHMs etc...

Anonymous wrote:It's not just rudeness, either; a friend blogged about all of the fake invitations for coffee, hiking, dinner, etc that she received in her first year there. She followed up at first and was almost always brushed off.

This. It's kind of meanness to the point where you wonder if they're doing it on purpose. Such a high level of social cluelessness that you wonder whether it's unconscious or not

It could be the lack of sun. Seriously. I get depressed and grouchy when we have X number days of rain.

It's not just rudeness, either; a friend blogged about all of the fake invitations for coffee, hiking, dinner, etc that she received in her first year there. She followed up at first and was almost always brushed off.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the apathy you speak of has to do (at least in Seattle's downtown) with the horrible drug problem they were having in the Nirvana days.

I'm in SF and used to be horrified to see someone in the Mission turn towards a building to light his crack pipe. Now I walk by a passed out guy with no shoes, filthy, bleeding feet who has a needle hanging out of his arm and mentally just shrug. I'm becoming apathetic.

No it's different. This is a social thing. You will talk to someone and they just- don't respond to social cues. The other day I told a woman behind the counter as she was checking me out how great the service was and she stared at me for several seconds (at which point the awkwardness was through the roof) and then just said "Oh."

That's probably the least grating form though- the worst is the needlessly cutting you off in traffic, being purposefully mean in the most passive aggressive way, and refusing to hold eye contact. Like if you are a pedestrian, it's as though people will purposefully speed to cut you off- even if they are walking also. I have never really encountered anything like it, but it goes beyond normal urban apathy. If you google "seattle people suck" (The statements people make are pretty hyperbolic- strong feelings about Washington people, apparently) you can probably find better examples from people who have been their longer. But it's very strange and honestly somewhat shocking.

I wonder if the apathy you speak of has to do (at least in Seattle's downtown) with the horrible drug problem they were having in the Nirvana days.

I'm in SF and used to be horrified to see someone in the Mission turn towards a building to light his crack pipe. Now I walk by a passed out guy with no shoes, filthy, bleeding feet who has a needle hanging out of his arm and mentally just shrug. I'm becoming apathetic.

Not sure why, but my friends who moved there after college remarked on it even in the 90s. I recall that it took them forever to make friends who were actually FROM Seattle (much easier to make friends with other transplants). Like, ten years forever. And both married spouses from other states.

Lots of tech people and engineers with poor social skills (Boeing and Microsoft are big employers.)

Lots of people who are fleeing the friendlier Midwest and South because they don't fit in there. (Which means they have poor social skills to start out with before moving to Seattle.)

To anyone who has experience with this: Why is it a "thing"?

Before I visited Washington state, I assumed that the people here would be lovely, artistic, etc. The first few rude encounters I assumed it was me, before finally googling it. Turns out Washington state is renowned for rudeness, for a level of social apathy bordering on sociopathy (I have also heard the word "autistic" used to describe the social style here), for passive-aggressiveness in the extreme.

I would have thought it was overstatement, had I not experience these things on such a widespread level first hand.

So.... obviously social rules change from region to region. For example, the south is renowned as being extremely friendly and helpful to strangers.

But why does Washington state, of all places, feel so anomalous to the United States as a whole? And why are basic social skills/niceties so lacking here, to the point where it's become a regional joke? Does anyone have any thoughts or input?