Anonymous wrote:My take away is that large percentages African American and more poor families are self selecting into charters. So those around DCUM who argue that charters are elitist and a bastion for racist white families can now shut up.

When DCUM think charters, they think CMI, MV, YY. They don't care where poor black kids of DC go to school. Most DCUM don't know poor black people.

I see the lobbyists are out in full force.

Here's an idea: take a real statistics course and then get some integrity. Just because you quote numbers doesn't make them meaningful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting stats:

Charter sector is 79% African American and 82% economically disadvantaged
DCPS is 64% African American and 75% economically disadvantaged.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maureensullivan/2016/08/30/d-c-charter-schools-outperform-districts-public-schools/#18f12735425f

And also their parents are capable and willing to sign up for charter so not exactly the same population as those who just go to their neighborhood school now is it? Motivation, parental involvement, small classes, etc are key! I'm guessing by your horrible heading title that you knew that and were just trying to be provocative, I'm also guessing that you probably wrote the other posts.

Yes, no way to rule out selection bias. In other words, the more motivated, stable families could be the ones who have the wherewithal to apply for and attend charters (i.e., don't get sent back to their IB schools for infractions). There's no way to say for sure otherwise unless families are randomized to either charter or non-charter public schools. Of course, that can't be done, so there's really no way to say whether it's mainly the curricula/approaches of charters--or something pre-existing about the families who attend--that is responsible for the differences noted in scores.

I don't say this to knock charters--the self-selection of motivated, engaged families who attend is one of the reason charters were on our list. However, I don't think we can attribute better scores solely to factors unique to charters without delving deeper.

The two wards that had the highest participation rates in the common lottery were Ward 8 and Ward 7.https://ms-dc.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/2016-lottery-distribution-of-applications-by-war.pdf

I think the selection bias is less now that everyone must use the lottery for PK3 and PK4. All families care about location - nothing unique to poor families there - and commute time. A majority of families who are choosing charter schools are choosing ones near their homes but many do choose schools across the city - as the 'where students come from maps' bear out - especially as kids get older and are more able to commute independently.

This is old news. Charters have been in DC for two decades, therefore outperforming DCPS for probably 15-20 years.

Hating on charters is for union shills and realtors trying to sell ugly little toy houses in Tenleytown.

The statistical "analyses" are just so bad. Enough spin to make you busy.

That's kind of the story for charters in DC right? There are few (no?) charters EOTP, where richer, whiter families are. In other parts of the city, people fled their crappy neighborhood schools to such an extent DCPS was shutting them down.

DCPS and charters perform exactly the same for white kids and DCPS better for not economically disadvantaged, while charters outperform for economically disadvantaged and all other race/ethnicities. That kinda makes sense -- if a big chunk of the richer, whiter kids are EOTP in DCPS they seem to like, that may be because those schools do a better job than the charter alternative. And vice versa for lower income and children of color. They're opting the sector that serves them better.

(That's from the OSSE LEA view of the recent PARCC; I don't think there is a unified view for charters at LEA level, but I assume if DCPS LEA is on one side of an average, charter sector as a whole is on the other.)

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but charter teacher ranks are younger, more educated, more motivated and probably whiter than DCPS. DCPS has some good teachers, but it's still saddled with the legacy of some old guard, low-energy, poor performing WTU teachers.

Is it better to be younger, less experienced, and whiter? Does a liberal arts education necessarily trump years of teaching experience? (I went to HYP, and found it prepared me to do very little.) "Motivated" is subjective. Motivated to do what, and for whom?

My take away is that large percentages African American and more poor families are self selecting into charters. So those around DCUM who argue that charters are elitist and a bastion for racist white families can now shut up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting stats:

Charter sector is 79% African American and 82% economically disadvantaged
DCPS is 64% African American and 75% economically disadvantaged.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maureensullivan/2016/08/30/d-c-charter-schools-outperform-districts-public-schools/#18f12735425f

And also their parents are capable and willing to sign up for charter so not exactly the same population as those who just go to their neighborhood school now is it? Motivation, parental involvement, small classes, etc are key! I'm guessing by your horrible heading title that you knew that and were just trying to be provocative, I'm also guessing that you probably wrote the other posts.

Yes, no way to rule out selection bias. In other words, the more motivated, stable families could be the ones who have the wherewithal to apply for and attend charters (i.e., don't get sent back to their IB schools for infractions). There's no way to say for sure otherwise unless families are randomized to either charter or non-charter public schools. Of course, that can't be done, so there's really no way to say whether it's mainly the curricula/approaches of charters--or something pre-existing about the families who attend--that is responsible for the differences noted in scores.

I don't say this to knock charters--the self-selection of motivated, engaged families who attend is one of the reason charters were on our list. However, I don't think we can attribute better scores solely to factors unique to charters without delving deeper.

Yes, but charter teacher ranks are younger, more educated, more motivated and probably whiter than DCPS. DCPS has some good teachers, but it's still saddled with the legacy of some old guard, low-energy, poor performing WTU teachers.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting stats:

Charter sector is 79% African American and 82% economically disadvantaged
DCPS is 64% African American and 75% economically disadvantaged.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maureensullivan/2016/08/30/d-c-charter-schools-outperform-districts-public-schools/#18f12735425f

And also their parents are capable and willing to sign up for charter so not exactly the same population as those who just go to their neighborhood school now is it? Motivation, parental involvement, small classes, etc are key! I'm guessing by your horrible heading title that you knew that and were just trying to be provocative, I'm also guessing that you probably wrote the other posts.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting stats:

Charter sector is 79% African American and 82% economically disadvantaged
DCPS is 64% African American and 75% economically disadvantaged.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maureensullivan/2016/08/30/d-c-charter-schools-outperform-districts-public-schools/#18f12735425f

A lot of racists there.

DCPS is about jobs, not education. Al Shanker (famous President of Teacher's Unions was quite clear on the subject). Until kids pay union dues they are grist for the mill.

Charts and data, without a reporter's spin on it.

http://www.dcpcsb.org/facts-and-figures-student-demographics

But some still won't / can't believe it.

Interesting stats:

Charter sector is 79% African American and 82% economically disadvantaged
DCPS is 64% African American and 75% economically disadvantaged.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maureensullivan/2016/08/30/d-c-charter-schools-outperform-districts-public-schools/#18f12735425f