Anonymous
07/07/2016 08:37
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
No screens until practice is completed. Practice can be just 15 or 20 minutes.
Anonymous
07/07/2016 08:35
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
Anonymous wrote:Here's what I have found. I play the piano and organ and regularly perform. I have to practice fairly regularly to keep on top of my skill.
I put it off all the time. Totally normal. I have young kids so..
What I've learned is that practicing really assists my 'muscle memory' and the awesome combo of short and long term memory. If I play slow, mostly correct notes, then the next time I play, I can play faster, and the song is even better.
My muscles (fingers, brain) get tired. I reach this strange exhaustion after playing for say 30 minutes. The good news about this is that even a short practice session does the trick. Running through a piece once or a few times over 10 minutes, sometimes does just as well as a longer practice session.
All in all, I just try not to push too hard and make myself get frustrated and tired at the piano. Once I hit that point, I can no longer make progress in a piece.
So... I suggest letting your daughter chill a bit just for the summer. Short short practice sessions, but every day. So, tell her you still want her to practice every day, but it can be for 10 minutes (or 5, or 15, or whatever). And since the requirement is so easy....if she even misses one day, that's it, the lessons are over.
See how this goes for one or two months, and have regular conversations about it. How does she feel it's going? Can she really learn a piece on 10 minutes a day? How long does she think she should play to keep progressing? Listen to her answers and try not to comment or suggest. This will give her some room to stretch and figure it out herself.
Last note, on the subject of you paying for the lessons and her not following through. You're right, at a certain point, youll have to cut it off. I don't know when that is, but if keep lessons going for as long as she says she wants them. At some point either she will feel guilty/stupid in front of her teacher and adjust on her own, or she will tell you she doesn't want lessons anymore.
Also if you set up a short practice schedule for the summer, see if she sticks with the 10 minutes, or if she ends up going longer occasionally because she wants to finish learning/improving a certain part. If she does this every so often, then you'll know she's got some drive on this instrument.
Anonymous
07/07/2016 08:29
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
Here's what I have found. I play the piano and organ and regularly perform. I have to practice fairly regularly to keep on top of my skill.
I put it off all the time. Totally normal. I have young kids so..
What I've learned is that practicing really assists my 'muscle memory' and the awesome combo of short and long term memory. If I play slow, mostly correct notes, then the next time I play, I can play faster, and the song is even better.
My muscles (fingers, brain) get tired. I reach this strange exhaustion after playing for say 30 minutes. The good news about this is that even a short practice session does the trick. Running through a piece once or a few times over 10 minutes, sometimes does just as well as a longer practice session.
All in all, I just try not to push too hard and make myself get frustrated and tired at the piano. Once I hit that point, I can no longer make progress in a piece.
So... I suggest letting your daughter chill a bit just for the summer. Short short practice sessions, but every day. So, tell her you still want her to practice every day, but it can be for 10 minutes (or 5, or 15, or whatever). And since the requirement is so easy....if she even misses one day, that's it, the lessons are over.
See how this goes for one or two months, and have regular conversations about it. How does she feel it's going? Can she really learn a piece on 10 minutes a day? How long does she think she should play to keep progressing? Listen to her answers and try not to comment or suggest. This will give her some room to stretch and figure it out herself.
Last note, on the subject of you paying for the lessons and her not following through. You're right, at a certain point, youll have to cut it off. I don't know when that is, but if keep lessons going for as long as she says she wants them. At some point either she will feel guilty/stupid in front of her teacher and adjust on her own, or she will tell you she doesn't want lessons anymore.
I put it off all the time. Totally normal. I have young kids so..
What I've learned is that practicing really assists my 'muscle memory' and the awesome combo of short and long term memory. If I play slow, mostly correct notes, then the next time I play, I can play faster, and the song is even better.
My muscles (fingers, brain) get tired. I reach this strange exhaustion after playing for say 30 minutes. The good news about this is that even a short practice session does the trick. Running through a piece once or a few times over 10 minutes, sometimes does just as well as a longer practice session.
All in all, I just try not to push too hard and make myself get frustrated and tired at the piano. Once I hit that point, I can no longer make progress in a piece.
So... I suggest letting your daughter chill a bit just for the summer. Short short practice sessions, but every day. So, tell her you still want her to practice every day, but it can be for 10 minutes (or 5, or 15, or whatever). And since the requirement is so easy....if she even misses one day, that's it, the lessons are over.
See how this goes for one or two months, and have regular conversations about it. How does she feel it's going? Can she really learn a piece on 10 minutes a day? How long does she think she should play to keep progressing? Listen to her answers and try not to comment or suggest. This will give her some room to stretch and figure it out herself.
Last note, on the subject of you paying for the lessons and her not following through. You're right, at a certain point, youll have to cut it off. I don't know when that is, but if keep lessons going for as long as she says she wants them. At some point either she will feel guilty/stupid in front of her teacher and adjust on her own, or she will tell you she doesn't want lessons anymore.
Anonymous
07/07/2016 08:13
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
Anonymous wrote:This may not be what you want to hear -- I played piano for years before starting an instrument in grade school, that I continued throughout high school. I hardly ever practiced at home. Maybe a couple of times a year.
From piano I learned to sight read, and that transferred well to my band instrument. Since nobody (or hardly anybody) actually plays an instrument after high school, it doesn't really matter if you're first chair or third chair, so I never needed that extra bump that practicing would have gotten me. If she enjoys it, and practices sometimes, and her private lesson teacher is happy with her, and her band instructor is happy with her, then let it go.
This was me too. I can't tell from OP's post, though, if the child is in band or just taking private lessons. In my case, daily band class was enough to keep me up with the group, but I knew I'd never be first chair (fine by me, I just enjoyed making music with a group and didn't need to be the best, though I was good enough not to stick out in a negative way).
If the child is ONLY taking private lessons, though, he/she owes it to the teacher to be prepared for the next lesson. In that case, some practice is necessary and the other posters' recommendations should be followed. Is it an instrument that can be transferred to band or orchestra in school? Another option would be to drop the private lessons and join band or orchestra.
Anonymous
07/07/2016 08:07
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
I have an almost 10 year old child who has been taking piano lessons for 3 years. He is doing great at least the outside world thinks so but getting him to practice can be a nightmare at times. As long as I believe deep down, he wants lessons I will force him to practice. It's normal OP.
Anonymous
07/07/2016 06:33
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
Anonymous wrote:I find your question especially interesting because of my own experience. I studied piano as a child and hated practicing, so much that I gave it up. With the benefit of more life experience, I've concluded that a large part of the problem was that I didn't know how to practice. My parents were no help, just yelled at me. So the whole process was puzzling and frustrating to me.
I did very well in school with little effort, and that compounded the problem. I wasn't used to things being hard or difficult. I was afraid that if I couldn't get something right away I must be stupid.
I think suggestions to get the teacher to work with your daughter on the specifics of practicing are on target. She can help your DD develop the exec functions necessary to practicing. If the venture is successful, it will help her in all areas of her life. Good luck to both of you!
This. My son's teacher also worked with him on how to practice. He eventually stopped lessons (sad) but there was no yelling. Practice is really really hard.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 22:56
Subject: Re:DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
I say to continue barring significant financial strain. Playing an instrument can be a fun hobby. It doesn't always need to be a huge deal where practice, rapid development, etc. are emphasized.
Thinking back to my childhood, I played violin for five years. I did not practice often, but played two days per week then five days per week for 50 minutes in the school orchestra. It was enough for me to develop into a comfortable player. I didn't have private lessons. I learned the fundamentals of music, and more than anything just enjoyed playing. It wasn't my primary activity, and I eventually didn't take orchestra classes so I could take an extra foreign language instead. Still, I had a great time and am glad I had the opportunity.
You don't mention the instrument, but is there a way she could do group lessons instead? Or maybe a teacher that teaches more pop-ish music rather than a classical repertoire.
Thinking back to my childhood, I played violin for five years. I did not practice often, but played two days per week then five days per week for 50 minutes in the school orchestra. It was enough for me to develop into a comfortable player. I didn't have private lessons. I learned the fundamentals of music, and more than anything just enjoyed playing. It wasn't my primary activity, and I eventually didn't take orchestra classes so I could take an extra foreign language instead. Still, I had a great time and am glad I had the opportunity.
You don't mention the instrument, but is there a way she could do group lessons instead? Or maybe a teacher that teaches more pop-ish music rather than a classical repertoire.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 22:46
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
I'm in the same boat as OP and I find it interesting that no one has said pull the plug on the lessons.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 22:10
Subject: Re:DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
If your ten year old is willingly taking lessons and does not want to quit, then don't harp on her too much. My DD took piano lessons on an off between 9 and 14 and her willingness to practice ebbed and flowed. She was happiest when she had a say in picking the music. Her teacher would alternate between classical and maybe a pop or rock song with an interesting piano part. She could have been better than she was, but she played for herself, she liked playing, and she wrote a couple of songs that she was proud of. I never had any expectations about how competent she needed to be and she worked out a deal with her teacher that she wasn't even going to do recitals after one or two. She ended up playing a band instrument in school, so she got to play with a group and perform that way.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 21:03
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
This may not be what you want to hear -- I played piano for years before starting an instrument in grade school, that I continued throughout high school. I hardly ever practiced at home. Maybe a couple of times a year.
From piano I learned to sight read, and that transferred well to my band instrument. Since nobody (or hardly anybody) actually plays an instrument after high school, it doesn't really matter if you're first chair or third chair, so I never needed that extra bump that practicing would have gotten me. If she enjoys it, and practices sometimes, and her private lesson teacher is happy with her, and her band instructor is happy with her, then let it go.
From piano I learned to sight read, and that transferred well to my band instrument. Since nobody (or hardly anybody) actually plays an instrument after high school, it doesn't really matter if you're first chair or third chair, so I never needed that extra bump that practicing would have gotten me. If she enjoys it, and practices sometimes, and her private lesson teacher is happy with her, and her band instructor is happy with her, then let it go.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 20:54
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
I find your question especially interesting because of my own experience. I studied piano as a child and hated practicing, so much that I gave it up. With the benefit of more life experience, I've concluded that a large part of the problem was that I didn't know how to practice. My parents were no help, just yelled at me. So the whole process was puzzling and frustrating to me.
I did very well in school with little effort, and that compounded the problem. I wasn't used to things being hard or difficult. I was afraid that if I couldn't get something right away I must be stupid.
I think suggestions to get the teacher to work with your daughter on the specifics of practicing are on target. She can help your DD develop the exec functions necessary to practicing. If the venture is successful, it will help her in all areas of her life. Good luck to both of you!
I did very well in school with little effort, and that compounded the problem. I wasn't used to things being hard or difficult. I was afraid that if I couldn't get something right away I must be stupid.
I think suggestions to get the teacher to work with your daughter on the specifics of practicing are on target. She can help your DD develop the exec functions necessary to practicing. If the venture is successful, it will help her in all areas of her life. Good luck to both of you!
Anonymous
07/06/2016 20:38
Subject: Re:DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
What are your practice requirements?
I'd be inclined to say she has to practice 15 minutes, 4 days a week at a minimum in order to continue lessons. Otherwise, she's being disrespectful to her teacher by not be at least minimally prepared for her lesson. I have no problem reminding my child to practice, but I expect there not to be a fight. If a reminder is insufficient to get her to practice, she really doesn't want to be doing it anyway.
We have quit lessons and resumed them later. You can discuss that option with her teacher, to see if there's a chance there would be an opening if she quit lessons for some period of time. We found the time off actually helped. She decided she was interested in her lessons and would do the bare minimum work, and often what her teacher actually asked of her.
I'd be inclined to say she has to practice 15 minutes, 4 days a week at a minimum in order to continue lessons. Otherwise, she's being disrespectful to her teacher by not be at least minimally prepared for her lesson. I have no problem reminding my child to practice, but I expect there not to be a fight. If a reminder is insufficient to get her to practice, she really doesn't want to be doing it anyway.
We have quit lessons and resumed them later. You can discuss that option with her teacher, to see if there's a chance there would be an opening if she quit lessons for some period of time. We found the time off actually helped. She decided she was interested in her lessons and would do the bare minimum work, and often what her teacher actually asked of her.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 20:36
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
Our solution to this problem was let the teacher handle it.I told the teacher, she has to practice or we are quitting. The instructor had a long talk with her about it, they began to relate on a personal level for how boring it is to practice (it's a discipline, no one likes to practice) and they made a deal. Sit at the piano for 10 minutes 5 times and week and play whatever you want. The teacher is a genius because once the time expectation was lowered to a manageable level and she could flip through the pages of the book, my DD started to enjoy her practice time. Then, teacher added 5 minutes of playing the pieces she's assigned. She will add more time until my DD reaches 30 mins. no more nagging and she's practicing more.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 20:29
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
Nobody actually enjoys the drudgery of practice. NOBODY.
However my daughter and other students at her music school have all passed the point of whining about practice. They all did that at the beginning, despite begging for lessons like yours.
My daughter is 2.5 years in, her friends are 3 or 3.5 years in. They aim to practice every day for at least 30 minutes, and we actually manage to do that about 90% of the time.
At some point, kids understand that the more you practice the better you play. The better you play, the more your teacher and friends respect you in group class and you can get ahead of them (a little friendly competition). The better you play, the more you look forward to recitals. It becomes a virtuous cycle.
What is the structure of her music class? Are there many opportunities for recitals, and group classes as well as the essential private lessons? Playing with others and preparing for concerts are the most powerful motivators.
Also, the teacher might try to up the tempo a bit. There is nothing so depressing as learning too slowly. You could have a deal. Practice every single day and the teacher will introduce a new piece at the next lesson.
Anonymous
07/06/2016 20:19
Subject: DD claims to want to continue playing instrument but has horrible attitude toward practice. Stop?
DD, 10 YO, has been playing her instrument for almost two years. She is the one who asked to learn this particular instrument and begged for lessons---which we were happy to provide; the point is simply that we were not the ones who imposed it on her. I know that no child really likes practice, but her unwillingness seems unreasonable to me (but maybe I just don't know what is normal, hence this post). She drags her feet constantly about doing it, takes any excuse not to, and if there's a task her teacher gives her for practice that she doesn't like, she doesn't do it at all willingly and sometimes not at all. It is a constant battle and I am sick of it since we are spending a lot of money and time on this for her.
Based on all this, I would gladly simply stop the whole thing. But when I mention that we are seriously considering stopping, she keeps asking us not to and says that she really likes it and wants to continue, and I know she enjoys the actual lessons. Her teacher says she is making progress, just not as much as she would make if she did what she is supposed more often.
So here are my questions for anyone who has BTDT:
--What is "normal" reluctance to practice at this age? She eventually does it, but as I said, not without daily battles.
--I've told her that we are seriously considering stopping entirely and that we expect her to practice willingly and properly if she wants to continue. We always follow through, so this isn't an idle comment; we are fully prepared to pull the plug. How long would be a reasonable amount of time to give her before that decision? She has not really changed her attitude at all since we had this conversation, so I'm inclined to not wait that long before stopping.
Any advice welcome! TIA.
Based on all this, I would gladly simply stop the whole thing. But when I mention that we are seriously considering stopping, she keeps asking us not to and says that she really likes it and wants to continue, and I know she enjoys the actual lessons. Her teacher says she is making progress, just not as much as she would make if she did what she is supposed more often.
So here are my questions for anyone who has BTDT:
--What is "normal" reluctance to practice at this age? She eventually does it, but as I said, not without daily battles.
--I've told her that we are seriously considering stopping entirely and that we expect her to practice willingly and properly if she wants to continue. We always follow through, so this isn't an idle comment; we are fully prepared to pull the plug. How long would be a reasonable amount of time to give her before that decision? She has not really changed her attitude at all since we had this conversation, so I'm inclined to not wait that long before stopping.
Any advice welcome! TIA.