Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I''m sorry OP that you are dealing with this very difficult situation. Have you considered that his behavior is emotional abuse? If not you should really start thinking about how he is purposefully inflicting inflicting this pain on you. You should discuss this in counseling to help your husband understand he is participating in the culture of abuse and he should STOP IT. You dont have to take his abuse. Be strong to leave and find someone that will treat you like the queen you are! You deserve to be treasured and not abused!

I think this is facetious, right? (It's the internet so one can never be entirely sure).

I can see how you might think this is an over reaction, but my emotionally abusive H does this kind of thing all the time. It completely invalidates her feelings. She's the injured party and it sounds like by the end of the conversation it's all been turned around and she's the bad guy - too sensitive, forcing him to agree with her, etc. My H would get angry after this kind of conversation and I would be the one apologizing. It's really messed up. It's a very subtle type of abuse and had to explain to others or sometimes even see it yourself.

OP I would talk to you therapist(s) about emotionally manipulative personality types (narcissists, etc.).

This is why her marriage is failing. She needs help, I agree. Not liking certain things about another person is not necessarily abuse, and it's nice to be able to tell between the two.

OP. I'm not an oversensitive type. To the contrary, hours of therapy have been spent on how I haven't been vulnerable/emotional enough and I've been the overfunctioner in the relationship. I think I've made decent progress on expressing emotion, and without trying to control. And on creating space for him. In the example I'm giving here, I've tried very hard not to continually counter with "No, you have to" because I understand that's not going to be helpful to either of us or our relationship.

As far as examples, the most recent one involved the use of a word to describe a personal traumatic experience. I have previously asked him not to use the word because it is hurtful. He has done so a few times recently. So I raised it and the conversation I described followed. It also happens in less emotionally fraught ways - I ask him to take responsibility for cooking dinner and he doesn't - and I generally let those versions of this slide after one or two episodes of "I didn't mean to" because it seems, on balance, okay. But sometimes, as in this recent example, it does not seem okay. And then I wonder whether I'm allowing the behavior in these "not okay" instances by allowing it more generally.

I have a hard time seeing this as "emotional abuse" or something similarly extreme. I do think, as PP said, the hard thing here is the not following through. I have said versions of "I didn't mean to" v. "I didn't mean NOT to" and I feel like it doesn't register with DH. I would LOVE if he said "Thanks for telling me about X and Y. Y doesn't make sense to me and I don't think it's fair for these reasons. So I'd like to find some middle ground other than me doing X." But that is not happening. And that's where I'm stuck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I''m sorry OP that you are dealing with this very difficult situation. Have you considered that his behavior is emotional abuse? If not you should really start thinking about how he is purposefully inflicting inflicting this pain on you. You should discuss this in counseling to help your husband understand he is participating in the culture of abuse and he should STOP IT. You dont have to take his abuse. Be strong to leave and find someone that will treat you like the queen you are! You deserve to be treasured and not abused!

I think this is facetious, right? (It's the internet so one can never be entirely sure).

I can see how you might think this is an over reaction, but my emotionally abusive H does this kind of thing all the time. It completely invalidates her feelings. She's the injured party and it sounds like by the end of the conversation it's all been turned around and she's the bad guy - too sensitive, forcing him to agree with her, etc. My H would get angry after this kind of conversation and I would be the one apologizing. It's really messed up. It's a very subtle type of abuse and had to explain to others or sometimes even see it yourself.

OP I would talk to you therapist(s) about emotionally manipulative personality types (narcissists, etc.).

Anonymous wrote:My DH used to do this and I finally called him out. Saying you'll do something (or stop doing it) and not following through, repeatedly, is passive aggressive and dishonest.

Yes, I agree - as a husband who used to do this. It took me a long time to learn to say "I don't agree about Y and I'm not going to agree to do/not do something I don't agree about. The honest direct answer is NO". People would get much further by addressing and settling their conflicts and disagreements directly.

This completely depends on what X is. If you're saying "It really hurt my feelings that you called me a bitch when we were arguing", then okay. If you're saying "It really hurt my feelings when you forgot to get broccoli at the store", then that's unreasonable.

Could you give a couple of examples of what X is?

I think in any partnership, you have to find a balance between asking your partner to accomodate your feelings by doing/not doing xyz and you learning to accomodate your partner by overlooking xyz. Without knowing the kinds of things (and the number of things) you are requesting we can't weigh in on whether you are over that line. If there are a huge number of ways in which he needs to change to accomodate you, then the real problem may be that you aren't compatible as a couple.

But the big thing here is just what you've said--he agrees but does not follow through. He is being dishonest with you. Now, is that because he is a dishonest person or because you invite dishonesty? Meaning: is he evasive/passive-aggresive in general? Is he that way with friends/parents/kids? Or just with you? When he is honest with you, do you hear him and value/respect point of view? What if you said, "X really hurt my feelings. Please don't X any more." And he replied, "I'm sorry X hurts your feelings, but it's not really reasonable/feasable to expect me to refrain from X." What would your response be? Would you jump right into feeling hurt that he won't fix things on his end to protect your feelings, or would you be open to finding a third solution (tell you when X needs to happen, do X only under certain circumstances, etc.)?

Now, I definitely agree with (and use with my kids, too!) the distinction between "I didn't mean to" and "You didn't mean NOT to," and it may very well be that he'a just not ever going to consider your feelings or needs.

"You may not mean to but you did it and you cannot do it again."

Anonymous wrote:hard to say without knowing what "X" is

+1

OP, nobody can hurt your feelings without your consent. Think about that.

hard to say without knowing what "X" is

Every time my daughter has said "I didn't mean to ", I've replied "that's not enough-you need to mean NOT to."

Anonymous wrote:I''m sorry OP that you are dealing with this very difficult situation. Have you considered that his behavior is emotional abuse? If not you should really start thinking about how he is purposefully inflicting inflicting this pain on you. You should discuss this in counseling to help your husband understand he is participating in the culture of abuse and he should STOP IT. You dont have to take his abuse. Be strong to leave and find someone that will treat you like the queen you are! You deserve to be treasured and not abused!

I think this is facetious, right? (It's the internet so one can never be entirely sure).

I'm sorry OP that you are dealing with this very difficult situation. Have you considered that his behavior is emotional abuse? If not you should really start thinking about how he is purposefully inflicting inflicting this pain on you. You should discuss this in counseling to help your husband understand he is participating in the culture of abuse and he should STOP IT. You don't have to take his abuse. Be strong to leave and find someone that will treat you like the queen you are! You deserve to be treasured and not abused!

My DH used to do this and I finally called him out. Saying you'll do something (or stop doing it) and not following through, repeatedly, is passive aggressive and dishonest. At a minimum it's thoughtless. After we went to the mat a few times it's gotten much better. I told him, if you have no intention of doing xyz, be honest. Don't lie to end the conversation and then not follow through.

Does every little thing hurt your feelings? Are your "hurt feelings" causing your husband to have to walk on eggshells? Because that would not be fair.

I am struggling with a cycle DH and I seem to be in when I express that he has hurt my feelings. I don't do this often and I do it consciously (individual and couples therapy has helped me see I am still learning how to express emotions and vulnerability, and that it's important for our relationship for me to be open in that way).

Me: "X happened today. It makes me sad because Y. Would you mind not doing X?"
DH: "Okay."
(time passes, X happens again).
Me: "X happened today. I don't want to make it a big deal, but it hurts my feelings because I had expressed why it made me sad and you did it again."
DH: "I didn't mean to hurt your feelings."
Me: "That makes me frustrated because we had already talked about X making me sad because Y, so you knew that it would hurt my feelings and you did it anyways."
DH: "But I don't think Y is true/I don't see Y/I don't think about Y, so I didn't mean to hurt your feelings."

Then DH gets angry, in his explanation because I don't believe him and/or I need to force him to agree to my view of things. And I get hurt and frustrated because I don't understand why he doesn't say, this is something that hurts DW's feelings, I will make sure I don't do it, the rest doesn't much matter. And because it feels like he thinks saying he will do something, not doing it, and then giving a reason means the behavior is okay and my emotions are somehow invalid.

X and Y can be different things - small and big. What worries me is we can't seem to break the cycle. I'm open to the idea that I'm doing something here to perpetuate it, but I'm really having a hard seeing what I could say or do differently other than not express my emotion, which for many reasons I don't think is a good choice in our relationship right now. Ideas?