Anonymous
05/22/2016 17:20
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Anonymous wrote:OP here; thanks everyone!
And what do you guys make of the articles that say that kids in lower performing, less affluent schools might be up to 4 grades behind the better schools?
Right now, my son is definitely not the best in his class! so it's not like he is "not challenged enough". But I heard that a 5th grader who was top of her class in math did not get into the AP math class when she started middle school. So, being on grade level (or even above) in a lower performing school does not really guarantee you anything??
It's simple - when you have 25 kids in a classroom and 20 of them are struggling, the five who aren't look brilliant. With fcps's brainless AAP system, the best students will be removed from the classroom after 2nd grade, leaving the middle students to become the highest students. So what looks high to the teacher and students is actually only mediocre. The mediocre student is the best student now, and there is nothing for them to set their siights on that is higher. No example. And the teacher is too busy trying to get the struggling students up to the middle to worry about the one that's already there. Then in middle school those mediocre students are dumped in with all the kids whose idea of "high" is a whole level higher, and who have had the opportunity to work above grade level. It's a completely unfair system.
Anonymous
05/20/2016 11:48
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The same question was asked on the PG school forums, I am copying and pasting my replies from there -http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/552016.page
------------
I don't live in PG county but a similar area in VA and I will answer the original question you posed.
Elementary schools that are rated low on Great Schools are not going to be great. BTDT.
What you think you do and do not want right now will change dramatically once your child is in school and is being effected by their environment both academically and socially.
Low rated schools are focused on academics but they are focused on getting the lowest performing kids up to average. This is where they have to put the bulk of their resources.
Behavior problems are very real and impact the classroom and learning.
I learned the hard way that parental involvement meant us as parents do quite a bit of extra work at home to either keep my child interested in school or to fill in the gaps of what they did not have time to teach. Lots of school events and an active PTA do not make up for the academic environment. They are nice to haves and it makes you as a parent feel good but they have minimal impact on the classroom experience.
if you are going to need aftercare, make sure to drop by randomly at a couple different times and check it out.
The same kids who have behavior issues during the day in the classroom are the same kids with behavior issues in aftercare. Add to that aftercare is not staffed usually be teachers and the ratio is high - 20 kids or more (depends on the regs in your area) to 1 adult.
Even if you have afterschool clubs/classes run by vendors, it's not much better. In fact, my kid was in those as well at her school and they were mostly a disaster because the adults running them just didn't have the skills needed to deal with kids with difficult behavior issues, the kids themselves were wore out with focusing on school so had little left to pay attention during the class, and the ratios were also high.
PP, what did you end up doing? Did you move, or switch to private? How was the transition (academically and socially)?
Thanks for your response!
Switched to private, the transition was bumpy the first year but things smoothed out the next year and we will stick with private.
Anonymous
05/20/2016 10:58
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Anonymous wrote:My kid is in K in a lower GS rated elementary school (4-5). Many kids are on free and reduced meals and/or are English learners.
I am looking for people whose kids are/were attending similar schools. How did/does it play out for you?
I am kind of torn on this issue. My kid is a late bloomer, not a great fit for the traditional academic program that seems prevailing in K nowadays. So for him the less rigorous approach of a less academically advanced school might even be beneficial.
The PTA dues are very modest, which I also like, as well as suggested donation amounts.
I like the teacher who is very accessible, as well as other staff. Kids seem to be nice and many are better readers than my kid.
On the other hand, I cannot help but notice that there is little to no small group/stations learning in part because there are few parents who volunteer, plus volunteering is not too well structured.
Kids are also doing things at grade level, whereas in many schools that are better rated kids are above grade level in what they study in class.
I have also read quite a bit on how even good students tend to underperform in weaker schools.
So, how does it play out? I really like where we live right now and I do t really want to move. But maybe I should?
My advice to you is try and figure out what the school's weaknesses are. My son goes to a specialty program school that is a 6. One year in, I know why the score is a 6 and not 8 or 9. If you can figure out WHY the scores are what they are, you will have a better idea of whether you need to leave or not.
Anonymous
05/20/2016 10:55
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Anonymous wrote:The same question was asked on the PG school forums, I am copying and pasting my replies from there -http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/552016.page
------------
I don't live in PG county but a similar area in VA and I will answer the original question you posed.
Elementary schools that are rated low on Great Schools are not going to be great. BTDT.
What you think you do and do not want right now will change dramatically once your child is in school and is being effected by their environment both academically and socially.
Low rated schools are focused on academics but they are focused on getting the lowest performing kids up to average. This is where they have to put the bulk of their resources.
Behavior problems are very real and impact the classroom and learning.
I learned the hard way that parental involvement meant us as parents do quite a bit of extra work at home to either keep my child interested in school or to fill in the gaps of what they did not have time to teach. Lots of school events and an active PTA do not make up for the academic environment. They are nice to haves and it makes you as a parent feel good but they have minimal impact on the classroom experience.
if you are going to need aftercare, make sure to drop by randomly at a couple different times and check it out.
The same kids who have behavior issues during the day in the classroom are the same kids with behavior issues in aftercare. Add to that aftercare is not staffed usually be teachers and the ratio is high - 20 kids or more (depends on the regs in your area) to 1 adult.
Even if you have afterschool clubs/classes run by vendors, it's not much better. In fact, my kid was in those as well at her school and they were mostly a disaster because the adults running them just didn't have the skills needed to deal with kids with difficult behavior issues, the kids themselves were wore out with focusing on school so had little left to pay attention during the class, and the ratios were also high.
PP, what did you end up doing? Did you move, or switch to private? How was the transition (academically and socially)?
Thanks for your response!
Anonymous
05/20/2016 09:17
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
The same question was asked on the PG school forums, I am copying and pasting my replies from there -http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/552016.page
------------
I don't live in PG county but a similar area in VA and I will answer the original question you posed.
Elementary schools that are rated low on Great Schools are not going to be great. BTDT.
What you think you do and do not want right now will change dramatically once your child is in school and is being effected by their environment both academically and socially.
Low rated schools are focused on academics but they are focused on getting the lowest performing kids up to average. This is where they have to put the bulk of their resources.
Behavior problems are very real and impact the classroom and learning.
I learned the hard way that parental involvement meant us as parents do quite a bit of extra work at home to either keep my child interested in school or to fill in the gaps of what they did not have time to teach. Lots of school events and an active PTA do not make up for the academic environment. They are nice to haves and it makes you as a parent feel good but they have minimal impact on the classroom experience.
if you are going to need aftercare, make sure to drop by randomly at a couple different times and check it out.
The same kids who have behavior issues during the day in the classroom are the same kids with behavior issues in aftercare. Add to that aftercare is not staffed usually be teachers and the ratio is high - 20 kids or more (depends on the regs in your area) to 1 adult.
Even if you have afterschool clubs/classes run by vendors, it's not much better. In fact, my kid was in those as well at her school and they were mostly a disaster because the adults running them just didn't have the skills needed to deal with kids with difficult behavior issues, the kids themselves were wore out with focusing on school so had little left to pay attention during the class, and the ratios were also high.
------------
I don't live in PG county but a similar area in VA and I will answer the original question you posed.
Elementary schools that are rated low on Great Schools are not going to be great. BTDT.
What you think you do and do not want right now will change dramatically once your child is in school and is being effected by their environment both academically and socially.
Low rated schools are focused on academics but they are focused on getting the lowest performing kids up to average. This is where they have to put the bulk of their resources.
Behavior problems are very real and impact the classroom and learning.
I learned the hard way that parental involvement meant us as parents do quite a bit of extra work at home to either keep my child interested in school or to fill in the gaps of what they did not have time to teach. Lots of school events and an active PTA do not make up for the academic environment. They are nice to haves and it makes you as a parent feel good but they have minimal impact on the classroom experience.
if you are going to need aftercare, make sure to drop by randomly at a couple different times and check it out.
The same kids who have behavior issues during the day in the classroom are the same kids with behavior issues in aftercare. Add to that aftercare is not staffed usually be teachers and the ratio is high - 20 kids or more (depends on the regs in your area) to 1 adult.
Even if you have afterschool clubs/classes run by vendors, it's not much better. In fact, my kid was in those as well at her school and they were mostly a disaster because the adults running them just didn't have the skills needed to deal with kids with difficult behavior issues, the kids themselves were wore out with focusing on school so had little left to pay attention during the class, and the ratios were also high.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 22:58
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
I have kids at a Title 1 school rated GS 2. I worry that they may be slacking off because so much focus is placed on underperforming students and raising low test scores. I fear that bright students will be held back if overall expectations are low. There needs to be a good-sized group of motivated students who will encourage each other and provide a social group in which it's cool to work hard and be smart. I fear that too many good families in our neighborhood are opting for private school or homeschool over fears about the local
public school, but I understand why. We may end up doing that, too.
public school, but I understand why. We may end up doing that, too.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 21:20
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Honestly I waffle a bit on this. My kids are at a title I school with many FARMS and ESOL. Despite the teacher effort put forth in the classroom, a lot of things fall to the parents to do after school. I do worry a bit about kids falling behind. The kids are great but some have a lot of catch up to do. Principals have an important role too, but whether they are doing well reaching kids or not, their performance is based on student scores.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 20:27
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
OP here; thanks everyone!
And what do you guys make of the articles that say that kids in lower performing, less affluent schools might be up to 4 grades behind the better schools?
Right now, my son is definitely not the best in his class! so it's not like he is "not challenged enough". But I heard that a 5th grader who was top of her class in math did not get into the AP math class when she started middle school. So, being on grade level (or even above) in a lower performing school does not really guarantee you anything??
And what do you guys make of the articles that say that kids in lower performing, less affluent schools might be up to 4 grades behind the better schools?
Right now, my son is definitely not the best in his class! so it's not like he is "not challenged enough". But I heard that a 5th grader who was top of her class in math did not get into the AP math class when she started middle school. So, being on grade level (or even above) in a lower performing school does not really guarantee you anything??
Anonymous
05/19/2016 15:06
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
In our higher performing ES - we don't have teacher aides in each class. I believe there are a couple floaters who help each of the five second grade classes. We don't really have parent helpers either. So you aren't necessarily going to get more than you already have but you will get much bigger class sizes.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 13:51
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Anonymous wrote:Op here; thanks for your replies!
Yes I am also happy with the class size (17 kids). It's title 1 so my kid has some "default" access to additional enrichment (5 field trips this year!)
I am not too happy with the fact that there is just the teacher in the class (there is a teacher's aide on and off in class but she doesn't seem to be doing much), and two personal aides for two SN kids, but again they don't seem to be doing much with other kids (nor should they?)
My friends in higher performing schools tell me that there are parents on any given day who help the teacher. I am not sure how she can do the small groups or stations by herself! Yes she is young and has some stuff going on in her personal life - so a bit distracted- but not sure how she would do it all by herself?
Our school is a 5-6 depending on the year. We are high FARMS but not Title I. Last year in K there was a teacher and an assistant teacher. Parents were also asked to volunteer, particularly during testing season so the teacher could sit with the kid being tested while the aid an assistant helped with centers. The classes has 20-24 kids so larger than your DC's class.
This year in 1st there is one teacher and one reading specialist who is responsible for providing extra support to the struggling readers. The teacher takes turns working with the other groups who work independently when not working with her. They use a lot of rewards systems. A tally mark sheet, marbles and now stars. Anything to motivate the kids to exhibit good behaviors. This week is PALS testing so the teacher sits with each child at her desk and tests them on the computer. The rest of the kids work independently and try their best to behave. Some noisy kids like my DS have to try harder than others
Hopefully you will like 1st better. We also had a "distracted" K teacher last year but we had the lead assistant so I think it all evened out in the end.
1st does not use in room volunteers but it is going really well. Good luck OP.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 13:38
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Anonymous wrote:Op here; thanks for your replies!
Yes I am also happy with the class size (17 kids). It's title 1 so my kid has some "default" access to additional enrichment (5 field trips this year!)
I am not too happy with the fact that there is just the teacher in the class (there is a teacher's aide on and off in class but she doesn't seem to be doing much), and two personal aides for two SN kids, but again they don't seem to be doing much with other kids (nor should they?)
My friends in higher performing schools tell me that there are parents on any given day who help the teacher. I am not sure how she can do the small groups or stations by herself! Yes she is young and has some stuff going on in her personal life - so a bit distracted- but not sure how she would do it all by herself?
Personal aides aren't allowed to work with students they are not assigned to.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 13:31
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Op here; thanks for your replies!
Yes I am also happy with the class size (17 kids). It's title 1 so my kid has some "default" access to additional enrichment (5 field trips this year!)
I am not too happy with the fact that there is just the teacher in the class (there is a teacher's aide on and off in class but she doesn't seem to be doing much), and two personal aides for two SN kids, but again they don't seem to be doing much with other kids (nor should they?)
My friends in higher performing schools tell me that there are parents on any given day who help the teacher. I am not sure how she can do the small groups or stations by herself! Yes she is young and has some stuff going on in her personal life - so a bit distracted- but not sure how she would do it all by herself?
Yes I am also happy with the class size (17 kids). It's title 1 so my kid has some "default" access to additional enrichment (5 field trips this year!)
I am not too happy with the fact that there is just the teacher in the class (there is a teacher's aide on and off in class but she doesn't seem to be doing much), and two personal aides for two SN kids, but again they don't seem to be doing much with other kids (nor should they?)
My friends in higher performing schools tell me that there are parents on any given day who help the teacher. I am not sure how she can do the small groups or stations by herself! Yes she is young and has some stuff going on in her personal life - so a bit distracted- but not sure how she would do it all by herself?
Anonymous
05/19/2016 09:00
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
My child was in a so-called "lower rated" school for K-2 and thrived much more academically and in smaller class sizes and we received much more daily and weekly feedback and had much more accessibility to the school, the principal, and teachers. Now he is in a "higher rated" school and there is a lot we don't like. Large classes; indifferent teachers who don't have time for feedback; school that doesn't seem to want volunteers; school that seems satisfied with very little academic progress.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 08:55
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
Anonymous wrote:My kid is in K in a lower GS rated elementary school (4-5). Many kids are on free and reduced meals and/or are English learners.
I am looking for people whose kids are/were attending similar schools. How did/does it play out for you?
I am kind of torn on this issue. My kid is a late bloomer, not a great fit for the traditional academic program that seems prevailing in K nowadays. So for him the less rigorous approach of a less academically advanced school might even be beneficial.
The PTA dues are very modest, which I also like, as well as suggested donation amounts.
I like the teacher who is very accessible, as well as other staff. Kids seem to be nice and many are better readers than my kid.
On the other hand, I cannot help but notice that there is little to no small group/stations learning in part because there are few parents who volunteer, plus volunteering is not too well structured.
Kids are also doing things at grade level, whereas in many schools that are better rated kids are above grade level in what they study in class.
I have also read quite a bit on how even good students tend to underperform in weaker schools.
So, how does it play out? I really like where we live right now and I do t really want to move. But maybe I should?
If it's a title I school, then I don't think it will be less academically rigorous - more likely, it will have more test prep, though. However, the teachers will more likely use good instructional methods, because they get more training.
Lack of groupwork and stations is not related to parent volunteers. That's just a bad or lazy teacher.
I used to work at a title I school, and I don't think they are necessarily worse than anywhere else. If your child is happy there, I'd be happy with that and not move just for some perceived academic rigor. We are in a non-title I school and it's not very good. On the one hand, they expect the kids to read several years above grade level, and if a child comes to K not already reading it's a miserable experience. On the other hand, they barely teach math at all, so if you have a child who likes math and is good at it, they have no opportunity to move beyond the lowest level. At least at a school with fewer good students your child will have a better shot at AAP, at least the school-based.
Anonymous
05/19/2016 01:58
Subject: What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?
My kid is in K in a lower GS rated elementary school (4-5). Many kids are on free and reduced meals and/or are English learners.
I am looking for people whose kids are/were attending similar schools. How did/does it play out for you?
I am kind of torn on this issue. My kid is a late bloomer, not a great fit for the traditional academic program that seems prevailing in K nowadays. So for him the less rigorous approach of a less academically advanced school might even be beneficial.
The PTA dues are very modest, which I also like, as well as suggested donation amounts.
I like the teacher who is very accessible, as well as other staff. Kids seem to be nice and many are better readers than my kid.
On the other hand, I cannot help but notice that there is little to no small group/stations learning in part because there are few parents who volunteer, plus volunteering is not too well structured.
Kids are also doing things at grade level, whereas in many schools that are better rated kids are above grade level in what they study in class.
I have also read quite a bit on how even good students tend to underperform in weaker schools.
So, how does it play out? I really like where we live right now and I do t really want to move. But maybe I should?
I am looking for people whose kids are/were attending similar schools. How did/does it play out for you?
I am kind of torn on this issue. My kid is a late bloomer, not a great fit for the traditional academic program that seems prevailing in K nowadays. So for him the less rigorous approach of a less academically advanced school might even be beneficial.
The PTA dues are very modest, which I also like, as well as suggested donation amounts.
I like the teacher who is very accessible, as well as other staff. Kids seem to be nice and many are better readers than my kid.
On the other hand, I cannot help but notice that there is little to no small group/stations learning in part because there are few parents who volunteer, plus volunteering is not too well structured.
Kids are also doing things at grade level, whereas in many schools that are better rated kids are above grade level in what they study in class.
I have also read quite a bit on how even good students tend to underperform in weaker schools.
So, how does it play out? I really like where we live right now and I do t really want to move. But maybe I should?