Anonymous
05/02/2016 23:41
Subject: My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
So how much should they get paid and how do counties afford it? I'm all for teaching becoming a highly qualified and highly compensated profession. You just gave to get money somewhere to pay first year teachers what they would get as doctors or techies in Silicon Valley. Raise taxes? Redo the schools so there are fewer administrators etc ? That's the problem. Once the pay is competitive the education degrees and people going into the profession will be those who are now going into other fields.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 22:53
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see a requirement that teachers score above the 75th percentile in both the verbal and quantitative sections of the GRE before they can be licensed. You could set a lower percentile for the very lowest grades.
Teaching suffers as a profession because it is thought one doesn't have to be very smart to become one--witness the low bar for entering a school of education.
The profession has never recovered from the outflow of all the best and brightest women once they were able to join the work force as scientists, doctors, lawyers, and business executives and were no longer limited to just nursing, secretarial work, and teaching.
This 1 million times over!!!
Anonymous
05/02/2016 20:55
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
The problem when you're working with people is that they are not widgets. There are so many variables and what makes one teacher successful with a certain population would never work with a different population.
How would you measure the success rate of these teachers? Would you take into account that one works in a Title One school which has extremely different challenges than the one working in Potomac? Would you give every one of these teachers a homogenous group of students in schools with the exact same demographics? That doesn't happen in the real world. Otherwise how do you know to attribute their success or failure to their stellar education?
By OP's logic, the most highly trained doctor or nurse should never have a single fatality on their caseload except those who are over the age of 80. Too much is outside of their control to guarantee that. No one faults doctors or nurses when patients fail to follow their instructions, which is outside of their control, right? But we fault teachers for things outside of their control every damn day.
How would you measure the success rate of these teachers? Would you take into account that one works in a Title One school which has extremely different challenges than the one working in Potomac? Would you give every one of these teachers a homogenous group of students in schools with the exact same demographics? That doesn't happen in the real world. Otherwise how do you know to attribute their success or failure to their stellar education?
By OP's logic, the most highly trained doctor or nurse should never have a single fatality on their caseload except those who are over the age of 80. Too much is outside of their control to guarantee that. No one faults doctors or nurses when patients fail to follow their instructions, which is outside of their control, right? But we fault teachers for things outside of their control every damn day.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 19:53
Subject: My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
Anonymous wrote: You start with a pilot program at say 2-4 universities where you develop a more rigorous education degree program where students learn the best empirically validated teaching methods and they experiment with new innovative techniques and even do small studies on effectiveness. Every student accepted gets a full scholarship (an incentive to help get more top students). It is much harder to get into than the typical grad program and they have to meet certain standards during observations of student teaching sessions. They also must pass more rigorous proficiency exams. They also must demonstrate a strong mastery of classroom management skills both in observations during student teachering and exams on the best empirically validated methods that include various real life examples. I understand regular teaching programs claim to have these standards, but my imagined program would have much STRONGER standards.
Once they graduate with a certain GPA, they automatically start 4 steps ahead on the pay scale. They have to meet certain standards to keep accelerating in pay and the cap for highest possible salary after years and advanced degrees is made higher. If they continue to show excellence, after 5 years of service, any student loans incurred before entering this fully funded program, are forgiven.
Researchers use a multimodal multi method form of assessment to follow these teachers and look at factors such as teaching effectiveness, student enjoyment of the class, classroom management, etc and based on the results the program is changed or revised for future teaching students. Gradually you increase the number of these "teaching excellence" programs in the country.
My biggest issue with making sure teachers get paid as much as say doctors is competency. Some deserve that pay and some don't. It is concerning how many teachers who we have encountered who do not understand the concepts they are teaching and to make matters work they lack enthusiasm for the topic they teach and cannot get the class under control. These teachers would never make it through (or probably even get into) once of these fully funded programs I have created in my mind.
Subject matter expertise and a passion for that subject is what makes a truly great teacher. Their enthusiasm for the subject becomes infectious and their depth of understanding and ability to give clear explanations is what helps kids grasp the concepts. Those are the teachers who leave a lasting impression.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 18:31
Subject: My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
It's not just content competency -- most teachers have to pass grad school entrance exams and take the Praxis, etc.
Being successful working with children with various learning needs and diverse students and their families also requires a certain patience and understanding.
Managing a classroom successfully involves the ability to multitask and problem solve.
Motivating and inspiring students calls for a special personality.
We ask so much of our teachers. I don't know only allowing the best and the brightest to teach is the magic bullet. If school came easily to you, it might make it harder to understand why some kids struggle and other misbehave.
I think an apprentice system is a better choice than the current system. Experienced teachers would get assistance, students a lower ratio, and apprentices work experience.
Being successful working with children with various learning needs and diverse students and their families also requires a certain patience and understanding.
Managing a classroom successfully involves the ability to multitask and problem solve.
Motivating and inspiring students calls for a special personality.
We ask so much of our teachers. I don't know only allowing the best and the brightest to teach is the magic bullet. If school came easily to you, it might make it harder to understand why some kids struggle and other misbehave.
I think an apprentice system is a better choice than the current system. Experienced teachers would get assistance, students a lower ratio, and apprentices work experience.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 17:57
Subject: My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher. While I agree that the academic standards of university Education programs are very, very low, I'd like to note that one doesn't start out with perfect classroom management technique, so this would be difficult to judge during student teaching.
I have a BA and MA in my academic subject, and when I later decided to go into teaching, I had to take out loans to get an Education degree so that I could be licensed. Compared to my academic MA, the Ed classes--even at graduate level--were a joke. I think that the way to ensure that (high school) teachers master their own subject matter is to eliminate Education degrees for high school teachers entirely, and to require teachers to have at least a BA/BS in their subject (NOT an Ed degree in that subject). Then, instead of student teaching, each teacher could do a paid year--not just a semester--as a classroom assistant/apprentice teacher with an experienced classroom teacher, who would also be compensated for helping the prospective teacher along.
In Virginia, Education degrees for all teachers, not just high school was eliminated years ago.
You don't need an education degree but certain education coursework is required and you need certain credits in your content area. For me, it was about 6 courses for a license and 10-12 for my content endorsement.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 17:57
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
I think an easier method would be to cut the pay of elected officials before you ever cut the pay of teachers. I think if the elected officials who pass budgets always had their salaries be the first ones cut if a balanced budget did not pass, they might have added incentive to pass budgets instead of blocking them. If their salaries were the first to be cut if a budget that spent more than the jurisdiction collected in that fiscal year, then they might have more incentive to balance the budgets. Build it into the system. Legislators only get paid when the budget is balanced and passed. Then maybe we wouldn't have the situation in Detroit.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 17:27
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
The profession has never recovered from the outflow of all the best and brightest women once they were able to join the work force as scientists, doctors, lawyers, and business executives and were no longer limited to just nursing, secretarial work, and teaching.
+1 But teaching will not be a high paid profession as long as it is seen as a "female" profession. More men need to enter this profession.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 16:55
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see a requirement that teachers score above the 75th percentile in both the verbal and quantitative sections of the GRE before they can be licensed. You could set a lower percentile for the very lowest grades.
Teaching suffers as a profession because it is thought one doesn't have to be very smart to become one--witness the low bar for entering a school of education.
The profession has never recovered from the outflow of all the best and brightest women once they were able to join the work force as scientists, doctors, lawyers, and business executives and were no longer limited to just nursing, secretarial work, and teaching.
The problem with poor education results starts at home. If education is not emphasized at home, even the best teachers are not going to make much of a difference. Take the teachers from the best performing MOCO and FX schools and put them in the poorest schools in DC and PG and see what happens - not much. It may help for a short period, then the teachers will burn-out and move on.
Raise the bar to get into teaching as you recommend and all it will do is drive up salaries. There will also be the usual problems with minorities being even more under-represented in teachinging/mentoring positions.. We now put huge resources into so-called failing schools and are getting little bang for the buck. The problems of why we have failing schools are well-known, but these reasons are hard for progressives to accept.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 15:51
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
I'd like to see a requirement that teachers score above the 75th percentile in both the verbal and quantitative sections of the GRE before they can be licensed. You could set a lower percentile for the very lowest grades.
Teaching suffers as a profession because it is thought one doesn't have to be very smart to become one--witness the low bar for entering a school of education.
The profession has never recovered from the outflow of all the best and brightest women once they were able to join the work force as scientists, doctors, lawyers, and business executives and were no longer limited to just nursing, secretarial work, and teaching.
Teaching suffers as a profession because it is thought one doesn't have to be very smart to become one--witness the low bar for entering a school of education.
The profession has never recovered from the outflow of all the best and brightest women once they were able to join the work force as scientists, doctors, lawyers, and business executives and were no longer limited to just nursing, secretarial work, and teaching.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 14:47
Subject: My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher. While I agree that the academic standards of university Education programs are very, very low, I'd like to note that one doesn't start out with perfect classroom management technique, so this would be difficult to judge during student teaching.
I have a BA and MA in my academic subject, and when I later decided to go into teaching, I had to take out loans to get an Education degree so that I could be licensed. Compared to my academic MA, the Ed classes--even at graduate level--were a joke. I think that the way to ensure that (high school) teachers master their own subject matter is to eliminate Education degrees for high school teachers entirely, and to require teachers to have at least a BA/BS in their subject (NOT an Ed degree in that subject). Then, instead of student teaching, each teacher could do a paid year--not just a semester--as a classroom assistant/apprentice teacher with an experienced classroom teacher, who would also be compensated for helping the prospective teacher along.
In Virginia, Education degrees for all teachers, not just high school was eliminated years ago.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 14:46
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
Anonymous wrote:My idea is more year-around schools, mostly play-learning in the summer. Parents pay small tuition for the summer time. I already pay for summer care, so why not pay a few teachers interested in extra pay?
Isn't that day care?
Anonymous
05/02/2016 14:40
Subject: Re:My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
My idea is more year-around schools, mostly play-learning in the summer. Parents pay small tuition for the summer time. I already pay for summer care, so why not pay a few teachers interested in extra pay?
Anonymous
05/02/2016 14:37
Subject: My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
I'm a teacher. While I agree that the academic standards of university Education programs are very, very low, I'd like to note that one doesn't start out with perfect classroom management technique, so this would be difficult to judge during student teaching.
I have a BA and MA in my academic subject, and when I later decided to go into teaching, I had to take out loans to get an Education degree so that I could be licensed. Compared to my academic MA, the Ed classes--even at graduate level--were a joke. I think that the way to ensure that (high school) teachers master their own subject matter is to eliminate Education degrees for high school teachers entirely, and to require teachers to have at least a BA/BS in their subject (NOT an Ed degree in that subject). Then, instead of student teaching, each teacher could do a paid year--not just a semester--as a classroom assistant/apprentice teacher with an experienced classroom teacher, who would also be compensated for helping the prospective teacher along.
I have a BA and MA in my academic subject, and when I later decided to go into teaching, I had to take out loans to get an Education degree so that I could be licensed. Compared to my academic MA, the Ed classes--even at graduate level--were a joke. I think that the way to ensure that (high school) teachers master their own subject matter is to eliminate Education degrees for high school teachers entirely, and to require teachers to have at least a BA/BS in their subject (NOT an Ed degree in that subject). Then, instead of student teaching, each teacher could do a paid year--not just a semester--as a classroom assistant/apprentice teacher with an experienced classroom teacher, who would also be compensated for helping the prospective teacher along.
Anonymous
05/02/2016 14:12
Subject: My idea to get more top notch people into teaching and to increase pay
You start with a pilot program at say 2-4 universities where you develop a more rigorous education degree program where students learn the best empirically validated teaching methods and they experiment with new innovative techniques and even do small studies on effectiveness. Every student accepted gets a full scholarship (an incentive to help get more top students). It is much harder to get into than the typical grad program and they have to meet certain standards during observations of student teaching sessions. They also must pass more rigorous proficiency exams. They also must demonstrate a strong mastery of classroom management skills both in observations during student teachering and exams on the best empirically validated methods that include various real life examples. I understand regular teaching programs claim to have these standards, but my imagined program would have much STRONGER standards.
Once they graduate with a certain GPA, they automatically start 4 steps ahead on the pay scale. They have to meet certain standards to keep accelerating in pay and the cap for highest possible salary after years and advanced degrees is made higher. If they continue to show excellence, after 5 years of service, any student loans incurred before entering this fully funded program, are forgiven.
Researchers use a multimodal multi method form of assessment to follow these teachers and look at factors such as teaching effectiveness, student enjoyment of the class, classroom management, etc and based on the results the program is changed or revised for future teaching students. Gradually you increase the number of these "teaching excellence" programs in the country.
My biggest issue with making sure teachers get paid as much as say doctors is competency. Some deserve that pay and some don't. It is concerning how many teachers who we have encountered who do not understand the concepts they are teaching and to make matters work they lack enthusiasm for the topic they teach and cannot get the class under control. These teachers would never make it through (or probably even get into) once of these fully funded programs I have created in my mind.
Once they graduate with a certain GPA, they automatically start 4 steps ahead on the pay scale. They have to meet certain standards to keep accelerating in pay and the cap for highest possible salary after years and advanced degrees is made higher. If they continue to show excellence, after 5 years of service, any student loans incurred before entering this fully funded program, are forgiven.
Researchers use a multimodal multi method form of assessment to follow these teachers and look at factors such as teaching effectiveness, student enjoyment of the class, classroom management, etc and based on the results the program is changed or revised for future teaching students. Gradually you increase the number of these "teaching excellence" programs in the country.
My biggest issue with making sure teachers get paid as much as say doctors is competency. Some deserve that pay and some don't. It is concerning how many teachers who we have encountered who do not understand the concepts they are teaching and to make matters work they lack enthusiasm for the topic they teach and cannot get the class under control. These teachers would never make it through (or probably even get into) once of these fully funded programs I have created in my mind.