Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is us exactly. Between DH and I we have 6 degrees; we live in PG because we're cheap and have a lot of debt from paying off those 6 degrees! HHI currently 180K and we will move out before our daughter hits school age (she's not yet 2) because the lottery timing is terrible. Public education is my priority and I can't count on PG. So to speak to the original question, the lottery is and should be for all, but those programs need to be expanded so there's a better chance of middle and upper middle class people sticking around. Ideally, yes, our local school would also be improved, but I think you have to prioritize charter expansion first.

I respectfully disagree about prioritizing charter expansion. Some charters are wonderful. Some charters are atrocious. A lot are somewhere in between, and like comprehensive traditional publics, none are a panecea. There is, under current Maryland law, a structure of oversight that some other states could stand to emulate. E.g., we haven't seen some of the fiscal malfeasance in this state with charters that some other states have, in part because charters have to be run by non-profit orgs, which means there is some increased transparency of the management company's finances. Special education services in MD charters are provided by the school district (check me on this one if I have it wrong).There is also room in traditional Maryland publics to do some really innovative and cool things with curriculum and differentiation.

...Just realized have a question for you, because I don't want to make assumptions. Are you hoping for charter expansion specifically, or expansion of specialty and other programs that includes charters? Many specialty programs are in a lot of ways radically different than traditional comprehensive ed, but are not charters per se.

First quoted PP here. Yes, you're right, I misspoke. I'd like to see specialty programs which could be or could not be charter (agreed that some charters are rubbish and the data isn't supporting the charter-glorification movement).

I would love to stay in PG, upgrade to a gorgeous home closer to the city, and still have money to burn on vacations, but I'm not going to, because I know the wait list for Goddard French and Goddard Montessori is...what...300-400 kids long for Kindergarten? That's absurd. My kid isn't going to get in, and I'm not going to send them local. Of course that sets off the chicken/egg question (is it better to offer more specialty programs, or is it better to improve my local school first?) and of course ideally we'd want both, mostly for all the people in our current hood (Laurel) who can't afford to leave or go private. I want better for them too.

The short answer is that our family will leave, right before kindergarten when we've paid off as much as possible of loans/debt and have maximized our HHI and thus our possible mortgage payment. And of course it's obnoxious to say, and I wouldn't be comfortable admitting in person to saying it, but we're the kind of people this county should want to keep (passionate about public ed, highly educated ourselves, and caring more about our kid's education than anything else such as commute, neighborhood style/prestige/amenities, etc.). It feels awful to say that this county needs to court the upper middle class (slippery slope! Checking out Ayn Rand books next!) but I guess there is a part of me that does believe it's an important part of improving this county's education system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is us exactly. Between DH and I we have 6 degrees; we live in PG because we're cheap and have a lot of debt from paying off those 6 degrees! HHI currently 180K and we will move out before our daughter hits school age (she's not yet 2) because the lottery timing is terrible. Public education is my priority and I can't count on PG. So to speak to the original question, the lottery is and should be for all, but those programs need to be expanded so there's a better chance of middle and upper middle class people sticking around. Ideally, yes, our local school would also be improved, but I think you have to prioritize charter expansion first.

I respectfully disagree about prioritizing charter expansion. Some charters are wonderful. Some charters are atrocious. A lot are somewhere in between, and like comprehensive traditional publics, none are a panecea. There is, under current Maryland law, a structure of oversight that some other states could stand to emulate. E.g., we haven't seen some of the fiscal malfeasance in this state with charters that some other states have, in part because charters have to be run by non-profit orgs, which means there is some increased transparency of the management company's finances. Special education services in MD charters are provided by the school district (check me on this one if I have it wrong).There is also room in traditional Maryland publics to do some really innovative and cool things with curriculum and differentiation.

...Just realized have a question for you, because I don't want to make assumptions. Are you hoping for charter expansion specifically, or expansion of specialty and other programs that includes charters? Many specialty programs are in a lot of ways radically different than traditional comprehensive ed, but are not charters per se.

Anonymous wrote:

This is us exactly. Between DH and I we have 6 degrees; we live in PG because we're cheap and have a lot of debt from paying off those 6 degrees! HHI currently 180K and we will move out before our daughter hits school age (she's not yet 2) because the lottery timing is terrible. Public education is my priority and I can't count on PG. So to speak to the original question, the lottery is and should be for all, but those programs need to be expanded so there's a better chance of middle and upper middle class people sticking around. Ideally, yes, our local school would also be improved, but I think you have to prioritize charter expansion first.

Anonymous wrote:I actually think the opposite on the specialty programs. I guess we would be considered "elite", and lotteried into French Immersion. We really wanted an immersion program for our children. Our next option was to buy a home in one of the better performing school zones. Private was option 3.

However - the lottery is too late for parents who are heavily leaning toward private. So I think a lot of the people who you are talking about have already signed on the dotted line for private school by the time the lottery rolls around.

Anonymous wrote:The fastest way to bring up the scores and reputation of PGCPS is to expand specialty programs (GT and others) that would draw upper middle class kids (with involved, educated parents) back into the public schools system. They come back into PGCPS, they are already firing on all cylinders, they get good test scores, and suddenly PGCPS raises its standing in the state.

It is much harder (as history shows) to bring up the scores of those in the lower SES bracket. Not saying that it should be ignored, but obviously, PGCPS and the state have been trying to do this for decades and it hasn't had much success. PGCPS just needs more of the not-so-needy students in its population to bring up the averages. Special programs are the way to win back the kids who are in privates and win educated families looking for a reasonably priced house to move into PGCPS. Families that have high scoring kids are looking for schools with a proven track record or special programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fastest way to bring up the scores and reputation of PGCPS is to expand specialty programs (GT and others) that would draw upper middle class kids (with involved, educated parents) back into the public schools system. They come back into PGCPS, they are already firing on all cylinders, they get good test scores, and suddenly PGCPS raises its standing in the state.

It is much harder (as history shows) to bring up the scores of those in the lower SES bracket. Not saying that it should be ignored, but obviously, PGCPS and the state have been trying to do this for decades and it hasn't had much success. PGCPS just needs more of the not-so-needy students in its population to bring up the averages. Special programs are the way to win back the kids who are in privates and win educated families looking for a reasonably priced house to move into PGCPS. Families that have high scoring kids are looking for schools with a proven track record or special programs.

I agree. It is a cynical view and clearly not a long-term solution– every child should be entitled to a good education – but it is what needs to be done in the short term.

And with real estate in all neighboring areas being completely out of control, now is the time to do it. People are going to have to start looking at PG if they want to buy a house close in for less than a million dollars. I am really shocked at the prices people are willing to pay just over the DC line from mount rainier where I live for equally bad local schools. The county really needs to take advantage of these rapid changes to the region before it's too late.

Anonymous wrote:The fastest way to bring up the scores and reputation of PGCPS is to expand specialty programs (GT and others) that would draw upper middle class kids (with involved, educated parents) back into the public schools system. They come back into PGCPS, they are already firing on all cylinders, they get good test scores, and suddenly PGCPS raises its standing in the state.

It is much harder (as history shows) to bring up the scores of those in the lower SES bracket. Not saying that it should be ignored, but obviously, PGCPS and the state have been trying to do this for decades and it hasn't had much success. PGCPS just needs more of the not-so-needy students in its population to bring up the averages. Special programs are the way to win back the kids who are in privates and win educated families looking for a reasonably priced house to move into PGCPS. Families that have high scoring kids are looking for schools with a proven track record or special programs.

Anonymous wrote:...I can't shut up...(it's me again)

I do think people with younger children aren't always realistic about how specialty programs work out or if they are a good fit or not. I happen to have a child who would absolutely FLOUNDER in certain specialty programs (performing arts, for example). One of the benefits of well-rounded, well-resourced public education done well is that children have well-rounded opportunities to discover new things without pressure to focus on it for life.