He's a teen, he needs to learn now how much sleep he needs. YOU don't know how much sleep he needs, you know how much sleep you THINK he needs. Let him learn the hard way. As long as he's ready for bed by 9.30 (including phone plugged into the charger downstairs) and in his room by 10 so that everyone else can sleep, let it go.

I have two grandsons raised by the same parents. Both are healthy and happy kids in high school. One puts himself to bed and is fast asleep by 10 every night. He falls asleep in the car when I pick him up form a soccer game. The other is up studying and on-line to around midnight every night. When he stays with me i keep telling him to go to bed! He sets his alarm for 6, pops up and seems to function just fine. About once a week he catches up by sleeping until 8 or 9 am.

I have a 12 yr old and a 14 yr old, and I also have stage 4 COPD, which makes me very tired, long before they are ready to go to bed. My girls go to sleep when they are tired, (without anyone telling them what to do) and they have no problem getting up the next morning for school.

I have a 13 yr old girl that is up before 6 am twice a week for a morning sport. Despite this, she almost never goes to bed before 10:00. She had trouble getting to bed last year when I was pushing for an earlier bed time. As soon as I backed off, she goes to sleep between 9:45-10:15 on her own happily. I thin this shift is biological. I think you need to give him some house rules coupled with more control about when his body is ready to sleep. Obviously, he'll have to learn that staying up late makes you tired the next day . . .

As for his miserable life. We don't know enough to know whether this is something he said in the heat of a battle about bed time or something that he really feels. You'll have to explore that.

You think bed time rules will solve this problem?

I can't speak to the comment about his life, but my son's internal clock started to arc a bit later at about this age. He had to be getting ready for bed at 10, and was allowed to read or whatever for as long as he wanted as long as he was settled in his room in pajamas and otherwise ready to sleep at 10:30. No electronics allowed in there, but reading was OK.

Our rule is the phone is on the kitchen counter by 7:30pm. TV and laptop are off by 8:30/9. Bedtime 9:30. If she is having trouble falling asleep, she is allowed to put on a DVD of one particular calming movie. If she fought me on bedtime, it would be an indication that something is wrong. I would ask more questions and if nothing was truly amiss, he would start losing privileges quickly. You can't make him go to sleep, but you can make life very boring. I would also look at diet and exercise. Mine gets no caffeine and gets an hour or two of exercise daily. When the weather finally gets nicer and the pool is open, I often take her to the pool in the evening for some swimming and diving. Pool time is like sleeping pills for kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does he want to do past 10:00?

I think 13 is too young to be demanding "bedtime"... no electronics okay, be in your room ...okay but you can't make a kid go to sleep.

Also, what is so bad about his life.. honestly?

Not saying he is depressed, but depression isn't really about life being bad. It feels bad from the inside. It can be fantastic on the outside, but that's not the problem.

But the family could be going through a divorce, he may be bullied, he may have a bi-polar parent, he might have LDs, his parents might be overbearing. Depression can be situational, what is going on?

Why not let him read a book in bed till 10:20 or so. Take him out to a bookstore to pick out some new books.

Anonymous wrote:What does he want to do past 10:00?

I think 13 is too young to be demanding "bedtime"... no electronics okay, be in your room ...okay but you can't make a kid go to sleep.

Also, what is so bad about his life.. honestly?

Not saying he is depressed, but depression isn't really about life being bad. It feels bad from the inside. It can be fantastic on the outside, but that's not the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bedtime ten latest on weekdays and he's fighting us a lot he needs his sleep as do we. We take away phone etc at night but he gets really obstinate. Says he hates sleeping because then he has to wake up and deal with his "terrible" life the next day. Advice?

Lack of sleep might be the symptom, not the problem.

Yes. I would worry more about this. Is he stressed, worried, depressed, anxious? What is he doing when he stays up?

Also, it's developmental that teens have a harder time falling asleep and want to stay up later and sleep in longer. Even though it's not good for a normal school schedule, you are fighting biology.

What does he want to do past 10:00?

I think 13 is too young to be demanding "bedtime"... no electronics okay, be in your room ...okay but you can't make a kid go to sleep.

Also, what is so bad about his life.. honestly?

"Larlo, last week you said that you didn't want to sleep because it means dealing with your terrible life the next day. Can you tell me more about that? I bet being 13 is really hard sometimes."

I agree with PP. Depression and stress can cause insomnia as much as they can cause sleepiness.

Anonymous wrote:Bedtime ten latest on weekdays and he's fighting us a lot he needs his sleep as do we. We take away phone etc at night but he gets really obstinate. Says he hates sleeping because then he has to wake up and deal with his "terrible" life the next day. Advice?

Lack of sleep might be the symptom, not the problem.

Bedtime ten latest on weekdays and he's fighting us a lot he needs his sleep as do we. We take away phone etc at night but he gets really obstinate. Says he hates sleeping because then he has to wake up and deal with his "terrible" life the next day. Advice?