NP here. As you can see from the prior responses, there is no typical government lawyer job. Government lawyers perform lots of different functions across all of the agencies. And even within an agency, there can be a wide variation in the quality of the attorneys, the office culture, etc.

I was a senior associate at a big firm who left for the government many years ago. For what it's worth, I've found my DOJ colleagues to be every bit as motivated (if not more so) than my former firm colleagues (we want to do well for its own sake, and not simply to bill a client). The quality of our legal work is every bit as good as it was at a firm. Because it's litigation there are some nights and weekends, but the difference is that when things are a little bit slower there's no pressure to look for work simply for the sake of billing hours. Overall, the hours are better and generally more predictable than at a firm.

Our office is pretty laid-back. Yes, you do have to take leave when you are out of the office for a doctor's appointment, etc., but that's a very fair trade-off for not having to bill hours (and quite frankly, there is less monitoring of our time than at the firm). In response to a PP, I do not need to "ask permission" to take leave, but I have heard of offices/agencies where time is monitored closely--YMMV. The pay cut is substantial, but there are a lot of hidden benefits -- TSP matching, pension, higher subsidies for health insurance, metro subsidy, etc. -- that you need to take into account. As a PP noted, you can make adjustments such as bringing your lunch, watching your expenses, etc., to help compensate.

The best advice I have is to go back to the agency from which you've received an offer and ask to speak with more people about what it's like to work there. As noted above, every agency is different, and it is difficult to generalize "government" vs. "firm." Make the best decision that you can -- I hope everything works out for you.

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Your posts are interesting to me (a PP who likes government work) because of course you are partially right. Not everybody in government is smart, and most are there for the work-life balance. The significant cut in pay makes that 5 pm quitting time pretty important, because that's the whole point of the tradeoff! If you came to government sort of involuntarily, I can understand why those perks don't appeal. However, be careful not to conflate smart with busy / staying late. They are not the same thing, especially in government where long-timers have the experience to know there are few true emergencies. (This was true in private practice, too, btw. How many of those late nights we put in actually had to happen, in the larger scheme? Pretty few.)

My experience is that as people fill their time with things other than work -- notably, but not exclusively, family -- they start to appreciate the job more. It's certainly possible that's not the case for you, though, and therefore not a good fit.

One last thought -- you may really be faster and better than many of your colleagues. Someone has to be! But as manager of government lawyers, my most frustrating employees are those who pride themselves on how fast they work but don't turn in the product I need -- either it's not the quality I need, or it actually isn't the product I asked for at all. I value efficiency but I don't value speed / volume of work for its own sake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

SEC. I can't get over how "average" the people are. I know DCUM will jump down my throat -- I'm not saying they're stupid; most have good school pedigrees, good firms etc. and then they came to the gov't and decided that work only matters up until 5pm (or 3 pm but not on a telework day). It's stunning that it was hard to get into this agency -- but I know it is bc I am now seeing how many resumes are coming in for ONE spot that we're hiring for. 3 more decades of this makes me want to cry.

Why should *any* job require you to work past 5p? Regardless of government/private sector dichotomy, people need to relax. Life isn't about work.

Anonymous wrote:Any other thoughts? Really appreciate it.

You're already saying the pay sucks -- is it enough for you to live and be happy? Bc your paychecks will be smaller than you're anticipating as the gov't forces you to contribute to a pension (4.4%) -- whether you have millions in law firm retirement savings or not -- plus you pay for other benefits that were standard at least at my law firm (long and short term disability). Have they offered you the absolute highest pay they can? Bc it's very likely that you don't get a raise for a while -- just 1% COL increases here and there.

What agency? Is it one of the ones that has a good pipeline back to the private sector in case you needed it (SEC; DOJ trial sections etc.) or is it something super-nichey? If you've never been in gov't before (clerking doesn't count - it's a term job), I would consider this bc you don't really know how you'll feel about it until you're there. You could be like the PPs who love their work and their daily life or could be like the PP above who is hating life and missing biglaw. If it turns out to be the latter, could you go back to your firm or a similar one -- or would it be too hard to convince a firm that your experience writing policy about farming interests in the Midwest or whatever is relevant? (Point is -- there are a LOT of esoteric gov't jobs which just don't translate well in the fairly competitive private legal market right now.)

Also -- not sure you can know this upfront, but how micromanaged is your group? It WILL be a big change from being a partner bc most partners (and even most associates) can come and go as they please -- they're not asking permission to go to a doctors appt or run out for a haircut or coffee with a friend; you simply tell your assistant and go. In many (most?) places in the gov't, it isn't like that. It's a more "traditional" office culture of being in all day from x hr to y hr and taking leave if you have to go somewhere or whatever. (I'm not saying everyone does this -- some just sneak out; some use telework days to do these things etc. but it is not something most private practice attorneys at big firms are used to.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

SEC. I can't get over how "average" the people are. I know DCUM will jump down my throat -- I'm not saying they're stupid; most have good school pedigrees, good firms etc. and then they came to the gov't and decided that work only matters up until 5pm (or 3 pm but not on a telework day). It's stunning that it was hard to get into this agency -- but I know it is bc I am now seeing how many resumes are coming in for ONE spot that we're hiring for. 3 more decades of this makes me want to cry.

Make sure they don't cheap out in terms of your pay. The only way up after a GS-15 is SES. I have stayed at my agency for over 10 years because my 160K and the gift of time that lets me spend a huge amount of time with my family, etc., is worth it, in my view, along with the interesting work. Others might find it boring.

Any other thoughts? Really appreciate it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

What's your agency?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

This is OP.

I hate client service. I also hate business development. I did 50 hours of it this month. I won't miss that.

I do fear I will feel unchallenged. My current gig is actually great. Exciting work that I love, brilliant colleagues, tons of flexibility on hours and autonomy. But I hate working nights and weekends. And when things are busy they are insanely busy and I might barely see my kids for a week.

The agency has very good hours. Almost no one appears to work nights, weekend, holidays - definitely a 40 hour a week thing. It's not litigation either which is great. No court deadlines would be nice.

Make sure it really is an improved schedule. There are government attorney jobs where the hours rival those of biglaw firms.

Think about whether you are contemplating this as a short-term career change or whether you might want to stay with the government for a long time. Obviously you cannot decide without working there, but just try to think through your possible future career paths. If you take this job, is this a place where people stay for their whole career, or just go for a few years? Where do they go from there? What sort of skills will you pick up there? Where would you be marketable from there, both in government and in private practice?

I was a biglaw associate for a few years and left for a government job that I thought would last for a few years. 15 years later, I am still a fed.

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

I did this as a senior associate almost 10 years ago, so not an exact parallel. I am very happy and don't miss the firm at all (even though I enjoyed my work and colleagues there).

I assume you are comfortable with the pay gap. It was easier to save money than I thought, actually, when I stopped paying for all that dry cleaning, lunches out, etc.

I was worried I would be bored; I am not bored at all. I did have a really hard time with the decreased level of autonomy; my agency has a pretty rigid hierarchy and I was not allowed to email certain people directly when I first started. I still have to be careful to make sure I have adequately consulted and cleared everything before making what seem like obvious decisions.

You will see more efficient ways of doing things but be unable to implement those changes for a variety of reasons, some good and some bad. You have to make your goals all about your work and doing it well, not fixing the world or getting other people to do their jobs better.

Good luck!

I'm currently an income partner in a midsized law firm and have been offered a government staff attorney job. The pay sucks and it's a step down in seniority, but I'm excited about working for the public good and about the regularity of the schedule and no nights, weekends, holiday work (I'm a mom of small kids). I'd love to hear from those who have made a similar jump, those who have considered it and haven't, and those who have left the government to go to (or back to) private practice. What should I be considering here?