Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning, I checked the list of Presidential Scholar nominees, and there were quite a few from our school. What surprised me was that the vast majority of the nominated student were not successful in their early decision applications while many others who did not make this list were accepted early to top schools. Maybe just a coincidence, but I wonder if colleges are focusing less on scores (once you hit a certain level) and more on other aspects of students profiles. Any thoughts?

Students who cannot pay full price for a private school and are looking for merit aid cannot apply ED because they cannot commit to attending in the absence of knowing what it will cost. Your post suggests that all high-performing students choose "top schools" and early decision to boot, but many do not have either option.

I did not mean to imply that at all. I know some kids do not choose to apply early for financial reasons. I was speaking specifically about the kids at our school, and I know that the vast majority of the Presidential Scholar nominees did apply EA/SCEA and were either rejected or deferred. It just seems odd to me that these kids did not get in while so many others at our school did.

Anonymous wrote:This morning, I checked the list of Presidential Scholar nominees, and there were quite a few from our school. What surprised me was that the vast majority of the nominated student were not successful in their early decision applications while many others who did not make this list were accepted early to top schools. Maybe just a coincidence, but I wonder if colleges are focusing less on scores (once you hit a certain level) and more on other aspects of students profiles. Any thoughts?

Students who cannot pay full price for a private school and are looking for merit aid cannot apply ED because they cannot commit to attending in the absence of knowing what it will cost. Your post suggests that all high-performing students choose "top schools" and early decision to boot, but many do not have either option.

Anonymous wrote:This morning, I checked the list of Presidential Scholar nominees, and there were quite a few from our school. What surprised me was that the vast majority of the nominated student were not successful in their early decision applications while many others who did not make this list were accepted early to top schools. Maybe just a coincidence, but I wonder if colleges are focusing less on scores (once you hit a certain level) and more on other aspects of students profiles. Any thoughts?

Knowing that many of the early slots go to legacies and athletes, some kids prefer to wait for the regular round so that they can include senior course load and grades and to have the additional time to work on their essays. My DC, who is on this list, applied SCEA and was deferred, but worked on essays and apps during the break and submitted the strongest applications for favorite schools in the regular round.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what that rough cutoff is for the top schools. Maybe 2200 or so on the old scale? Or a 34 ACT?

For a unhooked kid from a wealthy suburb its probably around 2200-2250. That's what we were told. Below that and you need to have some other major factor going for you (first gen, URM, athlete, legacy).

Here is the complete list:

Candidates for the Presidential Scholars Program: http://www2.ed.gov/programs/psp/2016/candidates.pdf

As I understand it, the nomination is based on scores alone, nothing else. If you pursue it to try to become a finalist, other aspects of the record matter.

Eligibility is based on SAT or ACT scores (excluding the writing component in both cases).

My DC is a Presidential Scholar nominee and I have no idea what landed DC on that list.

How are nominees selected?

Once you're in the top 5% or so and you're in the school's pool, the test scores don't make a difference. They want signs that you might make a difference in the world or at least create a desirable community at the school or be great at the one thing you really care about. Schools also need students that fill out their majors and play on their sports teams and make sure they don't all come from the same socio-economic background. Caltech might not care about those things, but every other elite school does. In other words, if you scored 1500, don't waste 500 hours trying to get 1600. Use that time to do something meaningful to you instead.

The Presidential Scholars program starts off by inviting the top 4,000 SAT/ACT scorers, so they leave off the table tens of thousands of equally impressive (if not more impressive) seniors. It's just one (high) honor among many and its timetable comes too late to help in the admissions process.

In this context, it's worth pointing out that the difference between a 760 and an 800 on the math SAT can be incorrectly answering one question. And that the material covered only goes up through Algebra 2, so it's less likely to be a case where a high-scoring kid encountered a type of problem he couldn't do than that he made a careless mistake.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what that rough cutoff is for the top schools. Maybe 2200 or so on the old scale? Or a 34 ACT?

This is actually knowable. Most of these schools publish their 25th and 75th percentile scores. The numbers that you list skew more towards the 75th than the 25th, so presumably the "cutoff", to the extent that there is one, is lower.

I think that's about right. Distribution of scores may matter wrt SAT (e.g. some schools don't care about writing). Basically, I think colleges don't see much of a distinction between a 750 and an 800 when they're making admissions decisions.

I wonder what that rough cutoff is for the top schools. Maybe 2200 or so on the old scale? Or a 34 ACT?

True, once you hit a certain point wrt scores, most highly selective colleges check off that box and move onto more interesting questions. Scores can disqualify you, they can provide a reality check wrt GPA (especially if your HS hasn't typically sent students to a particular college), but they aren't the basis on which top tier schools decide among obviously qualified students. Essays, letters of rec, transcripts, ECs and demographics are the kinds of things that get high-scoring applicants in.

This morning, I checked the list of Presidential Scholar nominees, and there were quite a few from our school. What surprised me was that the vast majority of the nominated student were not successful in their early decision applications while many others who did not make this list were accepted early to top schools. Maybe just a coincidence, but I wonder if colleges are focusing less on scores (once you hit a certain level) and more on other aspects of students profiles. Any thoughts?