I thought there were roman records of his execution. Definitive records.

There are no true primary accounts of Jesus. For example, if I'm an eyewitness, I viewed a situation firsthand.

The bible is filled with stories that were written YEARS after his death. So while the bible may be a primary document reflecting the time period (novels, plays and other nonfiction texts are primary), the accounts are not defined as eyewitness accounts.

There is no reference to Jesus while he was a living person. After that, all references were only from people trying to promote Christianity. Did he exist? Probably, but as a religious leader who branched off of Judaism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ancient historian here (though this was not my period). There is no reference to him during his lifetime. However, there are some references within a few decades of his death, such that most historians brlieve that there was a preacher of that name at that time. Beyond that, there is little than can be definitively stated about the historical figure.

Sure, but, isn't it safe to infer, not only for the admitedly scant records but mainly for the complete devotion of the people who actually knew him (or, if you will, claimed to have known him) -- and were willing to be cruficied, stoned to death, etc on his name --, that he existed?

"Hey guys, let's make up the existence of this guy. We'll be willing to suffer horrible torture and death on this fake guy's name."

Well, the vast majority of persecuted Christians never claimed to have met him - the persecution of Christiians didn't begin in earnest till some time after his death.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not Christian either, but I don't think there is a single piece of evidence that he ever even existed. The earliest mentions of Jesus are about 200 years after his alleged death.

Personally, I think he probably existed as a small cult leader. After his death, his legacy grew and eventually, the Roman empire adopted Christianity as a way of unifying the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Yeah, if you don't actually know something, you should not really respond. Because you are incorrect. There is a LOT of documented evidence of Jesus' existence, discussed at length in many, many, many books. Pretty much no one doubts his existence.

Please list the books. The Bible doesn't count as one of them.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_1?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A283155%2Cn%3A6343234011%2Ck%3Adid+jesus+exist&keywords=did+jesus+exist&ie=UTF8&qid=1450545488&rnid=1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not Christian either, but I don't think there is a single piece of evidence that he ever even existed. The earliest mentions of Jesus are about 200 years after his alleged death.

Personally, I think he probably existed as a small cult leader. After his death, his legacy grew and eventually, the Roman empire adopted Christianity as a way of unifying the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Yeah, if you don't actually know something, you should not really respond. Because you are incorrect. There is a LOT of documented evidence of Jesus' existence, discussed at length in many, many, many books. Pretty much no one doubts his existence.

Please list the books. The Bible doesn't count as one of them.

Anonymous wrote:Ancient historian here (though this was not my period). There is no reference to him during his lifetime. However, there are some references within a few decades of his death, such that most historians brlieve that there was a preacher of that name at that time. Beyond that, there is little than can be definitively stated about the historical figure.

Sure, but, isn't it safe to infer, not only for the admitedly scant records but mainly for the complete devotion of the people who actually knew him (or, if you will, claimed to have known him) -- and were willing to be cruficied, stoned to death, etc on his name --, that he existed?

"Hey guys, let's make up the existence of this guy. We'll be willing to suffer horrible torture and death on this fake guy's name."

Ancient historian here (though this was not my period). There is no reference to him during his lifetime. However, there are some references within a few decades of his death, such that most historians brlieve that there was a preacher of that name at that time. Beyond that, there is little than can be definitively stated about the historical figure.

Anonymous wrote:My understanding and I am not religious, is he did actually exist. Now, the bigger question for me is did he really have these visions or did he have a mental illness?

C'mon.

I am non-religious, but I think it's pretty certain he was a very poor Jewish peasant/day laborer who preached for about three years, had devout followers, was famous/notorious enough to gather the attention of the Roman and Jewish leaders in Jerusalem, and was executed in a cross.

His followers must have witnessed/experienced something remarkable to have maintained their devotion after his death, and have been willing to suffer horrible deaths instead of renouncing their faith. What that was is a matter of faith.

Anonymous wrote:My understanding and I am not religious, is he did actually exist. Now, the bigger question for me is did he really have these visions or did he have a mental illness?

Which Jesus are you thinking of? I do not recall Jesus discussing "visions" in the Bible.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not Christian either, but I don't think there is a single piece of evidence that he ever even existed. The earliest mentions of Jesus are about 200 years after his alleged death.

Personally, I think he probably existed as a small cult leader. After his death, his legacy grew and eventually, the Roman empire adopted Christianity as a way of unifying the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Yeah, if you don't actually know something, you should not really respond. Because you are incorrect. There is a LOT of documented evidence of Jesus' existence, discussed at length in many, many, many books. Pretty much no one doubts his existence.

My understanding and I am not religious, is he did actually exist. Now, the bigger question for me is did he really have these visions or did he have a mental illness?

Josephus (Jewish) and Titus (Roman), to begin with, writing around 70 CE. I think an overwhelming majority of scholars think that there is no doubt he existed.

I'm not Christian either, but I don't think there is a single piece of evidence that he ever even existed. The earliest mentions of Jesus are about 200 years after his alleged death.

Personally, I think he probably existed as a small cult leader. After his death, his legacy grew and eventually, the Roman empire adopted Christianity as a way of unifying the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

We are not Christian so please excuse the ignorance...my DS asked if Jesus was a real person or just a religious figure/legend. So outside the question of whether he is the "savior" or not, has it been documented that he was a real, living person? What type of records existed back then? Is there "proof" that the man physically existed? Anything outside of the bible?