I can see it's a tough situation and you're doing your best to figure it out. But seems to me you're missing many small opportunities to set some further boundaries or express further what works and what doesn't. When your FIL and MIL told you about SIL and DN's visit and how they yelled and FIL went out without them and MIL said they were being miserable, a really good, calm reaction might have been to say "Oh, wow... I really feel for SIL. When you consider all the stress she must be under, and the stress of the divorce and the impact on DN of the break up, they must both be so tired and emtionally drained. That is a good time to not judge and just try to be supportive. I hope she's got supports in her life who are recognizing how difficult this phase is and treating them with patience. That's what you or I would want if we were going through the same thing, isn't it?"

There are a lot of ways to say "Wow, you really over-reacted, no one deserves to be treated like that" without actually saying it.

Also, have you reached out to SIL since it happened? Offered to take DN for a weekend or offered to just be an ear to her with all she's going through? From the way you wrote it sounds like you haven't talked to her since all that. Is that correct?

In terms of your ILs, you just have to be constantly vigilant. Maybe sometimes use DH's position of being the favorite and your DS's privileged position as the favorite grandkid and help them think about the discrepancies in a nice way, or maybe encourage them to do something extra nice for your DH's sibs. It might mean a whole lot to the sibs.

I have found that just saying loudly, "STOP!" and putting up my hand startles the adult bully. Get the little ones out of earshot and then say very clearly, "This is not okay. You cannot do XXXX. It hurts their feelings etc - whatever the situation is." Pretend you are a teacher talking to a second grader and make it very clear what the offense was and why it was wrong. Bullies like that aren't used to be called on their behavior. If he can't stop, then leave. Don't put up with it.

Thanks for all the input.

I will not speak to FIL at this point - but if happens when I'm around I am taking DN and SIL and DS and leaving immediately - no if ands and buts, I'm sure DH will be with me on this.

As for avoiding them, I wish. They will not "abandon" their mom - and I agree it is her choice.

As for BIL - we don't have a lot of extra space and I can't deal with him in our house. He is not a good houseguest - i.e. doesn't help out/clean up after himself, will drink all your favorite scotch while simultaneously telling you that the scotch in Japan is so superior. And everything is all about him and what he wants.

I will hope SIL and DN come and spend as much time with them - I see lots of excursions to museums/zoo/etc.

Poor SIL and DN! Please tell her she's a good mom.

I would not make a big deal out of a swat on the behind for your son, unless it becomes a regular thing. However, yelling at DN and nixing a planned outing is cruel.

For both children's sakes, you should really severely limit contact with this horrible person that is your FIL. There is no need to confront him in any way. Just DO IT.

And forget about your MIL - she's made her bed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never ever ever leave your DS alone with the ILs. Never. FIL is not to be trusted, and MIL can't be counted on to intervene.

Nope. Just set the boundary and be done with it.

Yes, but I'm stuck on what to do regarding DN? Do I say something to FIL? He is such a bully but generally does as we ask when it comes to DS - like not telling adult (offensive) stories/jokes when DS is present, not shaming him when he was having accidents, etc.).

I just feel so badly for SIL.

Defend your nephew just as you would your own kid. Both he and your SIL are vulnerable given the divorce situation.

You have a very dysfunctional situation. Your MIL might be a saint to your husband and his siblings, but she clings to your FIL's abuse and would probably be defenseless in preventing his abuse of your child and nephew, whether verbal or physical.

Your BIL is going to stay with your inlaws for a few weeks even though your BIL and FIL are oil & water. More dysfunction.

If your SIL and nephew decide to visit you, you all should try to stay busy and see your inlaws as little as possible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never ever ever leave your DS alone with the ILs. Never. FIL is not to be trusted, and MIL can't be counted on to intervene.

Nope. Just set the boundary and be done with it.

Yes, but I'm stuck on what to do regarding DN? Do I say something to FIL? He is such a bully but generally does as we ask when it comes to DS - like not telling adult (offensive) stories/jokes when DS is present, not shaming him when he was having accidents, etc.).

I just feel so badly for SIL.

Be there for SIL and encourage her to stand up for herself as needed. Use what happens to inform how you protect your own kid.

But that's it. If DH wants to talk with him about it, sure, but it is really out of your purview.

Why not offer to let bil stay at your house? Esp since you all will be gone.

Anonymous wrote:Never ever ever leave your DS alone with the ILs. Never. FIL is not to be trusted, and MIL can't be counted on to intervene.

Nope. Just set the boundary and be done with it.

Yes, but I'm stuck on what to do regarding DN? Do I say something to FIL? He is such a bully but generally does as we ask when it comes to DS - like not telling adult (offensive) stories/jokes when DS is present, not shaming him when he was having accidents, etc.).

I just feel so badly for SIL.

Never ever ever leave your DS alone with the ILs. Never. FIL is not to be trusted, and MIL can't be counted on to intervene.

Nope. Just set the boundary and be done with it.

Anonymous wrote:As much as possible, stick to neutral locations. Get the adults, mostly FIL + MIL out of the house at least once a day. Plan family friendly activities the kids can join but if they're having an off day, leave it be and pack up the adults and GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. Crazy people are less crazy, and less abusive, when not at home. Spend most of the day out & about. When you get home from the outing, people should be tired and want to retreat to their respective bedrooms for a bit of rest.

Be warm and kind towards your ILs but be watchful like a hawk and at the first sign of trouble, get the little kids away from FIL - out of sight and out of earshot. Don't let them witness his abusing MIL or anyone else.

If he has a major meltdown - which is sounds like he might, but he might not - focus on the escape, getting the kids out. Once he's done and calmed down, let him know that it's time to go and that you hope things go better next time. Just pack up his things, book a hotel room, and call a cab - don't engage in the subject matter that was the source of his outburst. MIL is free to join or not join him in his departure - you can't control her, as much as it pains everyone to see her follow him.

That's what you do. You foster the relationship when there is good. When there is bad, you protect your kids and don't fan the flames.

Thank you - this is what I do. It helps to be reassured as I occasionally second guess myself. Plus BIL and FIL are like oil and water and I'm dreading any time with the 2 of them together over the next few weeks.



And to clarify, MIL & FIL live locally (about 15-20 minutes from us). BIL and SIL visiting from overseas will be staying at inlaws house not ours. In fact we will be heading to my parents for a few nights after spending Christmas Eve with inlaws. IF, SIL and DN still come down for the week after Christmas as planned they will stay with us. And for whatever reason - my inlaws are all fairly anti-hotel if any family is available to stay with no matter how crapped the quarters.

As much as possible, stick to neutral locations. Get the adults, mostly FIL + MIL out of the house at least once a day. Plan family friendly activities the kids can join but if they're having an off day, leave it be and pack up the adults and GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. Crazy people are less crazy, and less abusive, when not at home. Spend most of the day out & about. When you get home from the outing, people should be tired and want to retreat to their respective bedrooms for a bit of rest.

Be warm and kind towards your ILs but be watchful like a hawk and at the first sign of trouble, get the little kids away from FIL - out of sight and out of earshot. Don't let them witness his abusing MIL or anyone else.

If he has a major meltdown - which is sounds like he might, but he might not - focus on the escape, getting the kids out. Once he's done and calmed down, let him know that it's time to go and that you hope things go better next time. Just pack up his things, book a hotel room, and call a cab - don't engage in the subject matter that was the source of his outburst. MIL is free to join or not join him in his departure - you can't control her, as much as it pains everyone to see her follow him.

That's what you do. You foster the relationship when there is good. When there is bad, you protect your kids and don't fan the flames.

(Sorry about the typos - I hit submit when I meant to go back and proofread.)

My FIL has a long history of being verbally abusive and even physically abusive in the past and I'm trying to figure out what to do. I want to respect my husbands wishes on the matter and not overreact but nor do I want to underreact.

DH and I have been married almost 20 years. The generally held opinion of him and his siblings is that their father is a complete A--HOLE and their mother is a saint. FIL is a verbally abusive bully and an insensitive lout. He is racist, misogynistic. I have heard lots of crazy come out of his mouth but for whatever reason he tends to rein himself in when I'm around - but I know he was verbally abusive towards his wife and children when they were growing up and a few years ago starting to be seriously verbally abusive towords my MIL and even started throwing her stuff out on the lawn. She moved moves in with us for about a month and I got here referrals to a number of divorce attorneys. But she went back to him.

DH doesn't like to talk about the matter - when asked about physical abuse he said that his did would spank them and I know his father at least shoved MIL at some point. I really feel like I should have a better idea but the are all so concerned about their Mom that they are not expansive. All 3 put up with their Dad for the sake of their Mom.

DS is 5.5 yo and FIL adores him and the feeling is mutual. I put up with it because it's what DH wants and FIL has been wonderful with DS. Though we severely limit any time DS has alone with them and DC is not to be left alone with FIL under any circumstance.

But after thanksgiving dinner I found out that FIL swatted my son on the behind because he was dawdling - FIL mentioned it to us in passing and both he and MIL said it was nothing and when asked about it later DS said that Papa patted him on the bottom. DH wants to ignore it as a one-off, I said fine but insisted on asking FIL not to use any form of physical discipline with DSD ever again no matter how mild.

My DS is the first grandchild and our DN (DH's sister's) is about nine months younger then and has always played 2nd fiddle to DS. They live 4-5 hrs away as opposed to 15-20 minutes so they see DS much more and have always been closer to us. DH is definitely the favorite child too. They constantly compare the two boys and the parenting and they are always found wanting - it's awful and I have spoken to them. In addition SIL is going through a divorce and is under a lot of stress. She and DN were staying at inlaws for Thanksgiving. MIL just told me last night that FIL really yelled at DN on Saturday morning after Thanksgiving - he was supposed to be getting ready to go to out and DN wouldn't put down the iPad and was fighting with SIL - my MIL sad DN was "being awful" - and FIL was really yelling at the DN and then left on the planned breakfast outing by himself. While he was gone SIL packed up and they left. Apparently she is both mad at FIL for yelling but also concerned that they think she is a horrible parent and that DN is out of control. I wanted to scream at my MIL and ask her what the she was doing while all this was going on, but deemed that would be on protective at the moment and just matter-a-factly told her that if he ever yelled like that at DS like that, that DH would never let him see DS again. ( I left my own opinion out of it for the moment.)

When I told DH about it later his reaction was predictable - anger at FIL and concern for DN and SIL, followed by threats concerning if he should ever do anything to DS and then a closed off resignation.

Part of me wants to shut the whole lot of them out of our lives, but then I think of poor SIL and my dear DN and I want to help them. DH really just doesn't want to deal with it at all. And I know he won't want to shut his mother out of our lives.

Oh and it doesn't help that it's almost Christmas and DH's brother and spouse arrive this weekend for a visit (they live overseas) and will be staying at FIL/MIL's for a few weeks. Making it hard to just ignore them while we figure this out. Oh and BIL is going to be pissed when he hears about this and I don't relish dealing with his issues. Again he holds his mother blameless.


I'm trying figure out what to do. I feel sick about the whole thing.