Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks to those who have shared there experience. In terms of the diagnosis, the reason I said very likely is because she can't/won't ever seek therapy because she believes everyone else is the problem so of course I don't have an official diagnosis. My thoughts are based on my own long term work in therapy, the advice of my therapist, reading and being in the field myself. I'm aware that there are a lot of reasons for abusive behavior that have nothing to do with a personality disorder, but in this case I think it fits. As another poster says regardless of the label, she's has a lifetime of emotional abuse. The usefulness for me of having a name for it just comes from trying to understand it better and see it from a more objective, less personal perspective. Some of the posts though really illustrate why it's hard to get help with this sort of thing.

My therapist told me that he and his colleagues only take on a few clients with personality disorders at a time because it is so draining on THEM and it is almost impossible to make progress.

When I told him I didn't know anyone who had cut off their family member, he said, "Are you SURE. Look closer." He outlined what some boundaries look like, and the things people say, and it was helpful. It is what keeps a florist/card store in business. "I did something. I sent flowers." <scene>

OP here - thanks to those who have shared there experience. In terms of the diagnosis, the reason I said very likely is because she can't/won't ever seek therapy because she believes everyone else is the problem so of course I don't have an official diagnosis. My thoughts are based on my own long term work in therapy, the advice of my therapist, reading and being in the field myself. I'm aware that there are a lot of reasons for abusive behavior that have nothing to do with a personality disorder, but in this case I think it fits. As another poster says regardless of the label, she's has a lifetime of emotional abuse. The usefulness for me of having a name for it just comes from trying to understand it better and see it from a more objective, less personal perspective. Some of the posts though really illustrate why it's hard to get help with this sort of thing.

Whether OP's mom has NPD or not is kind of a red herring here. If you ignore the guess at a diagnosis, what we're left with is the real issue OP is facing -- a mother with unhealthy behavioral patterns that she takes out on OP.

OP, I've been in your same place with my mother. We do have a cordial relationship, but it's one that involves a lot of boundaries. My kids know who she is and we see her a few times a year, but they don't have a close relationship with her, and that's for the best. It look a good stint of therapy to learn how to set proper boundaries with her, and to manage my own emotional responses so that I didn't feed into the dynamic. If you're serious about wanting to continue a relationship with your mother, I'd suggest starting there.

OP, there are some great books to start with. "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and "Toxic Parents" are classics and have helped a lot of people.

You have to learn to set firm boundaries with love and compassion. It helps if you keep reminding yourself that her emotional abusiveness is a reflection of her dysfunction and really has nothing to do with YOU. You cannot take anything she says that is hurtful to heart because it comes from her craziness, not from reality. A therapist can help you learn to do that.

Anonymous wrote:Unless they are professionally diagnosed you don't know that they have npd. My guess is that a lot of npd adult children are projecting their own disorders on their parents. Npd is the new "in" arm chair diagnosis for anyone who doesn't like a parent or inlaw. It doesn't make it accurate.

Whatever.

OP expressed that her mother is pretty emotionally abusive. It doesn't matter what the specific diagnosis is. It's just a label to get some descriptive handle on her mother's behavior. It always amazes me that people will look at a victim of abuse and say "You're the abusive one. Your mother is innocent." The victim blaming going on in this thread is astonishing.

Unless they are professionally diagnosed you don't know that they have npd. My guess is that a lot of npd adult children are projecting their own disorders on their parents. Npd is the new "in" arm chair diagnosis for anyone who doesn't like a parent or inlaw. It doesn't make it accurate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After many years of emotional abuse, I've realized my mom very likely has NPD (my whole life i knew there was something, I just didn't have a name for it). Things have gotten far worse between us since I've had my own children because I can't or won't accomodate her the way I used to. She's always angry with me about something, blames me for everything and says I don't want a relationship with her and I'll be sorry when she dies. In the past year and a half, she hasn't called me once, including on my birthdays but I've called her numerous times so she can talk with my kids. She's generally fine with them although she privately accuses me of keeping them away from her and being a terrible mom for various reasons. Anyway, despite all this I really would like to have some kind of at least cordial relationship with her both for myself and for my kids since I grew up with grandparents and I want that for them too. Am I being unrealistic? If you've been down this road and done anything short of cutoff, how have you done it and what's worked for you?

It is just as likely that she is depressed. Stop with the arm chair psychology.

Since the internet and round the clock therapy usage, everyone's a damn doctor. They use the lingo and everything.

I know! Isn't it so great that people can do research about personality disorders and how to handle them instead of just drinking their problems away like they did in earlier times!?

Not all of us want to go back to the Stone Age. Realizing that my parents have NPD has allowed me to have a limited, controlled relationship with them since I better understand their methods of controlling me. This is much better than just being miserable in my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After many years of emotional abuse, I've realized my mom very likely has NPD (my whole life i knew there was something, I just didn't have a name for it). Things have gotten far worse between us since I've had my own children because I can't or won't accomodate her the way I used to. She's always angry with me about something, blames me for everything and says I don't want a relationship with her and I'll be sorry when she dies. In the past year and a half, she hasn't called me once, including on my birthdays but I've called her numerous times so she can talk with my kids. She's generally fine with them although she privately accuses me of keeping them away from her and being a terrible mom for various reasons. Anyway, despite all this I really would like to have some kind of at least cordial relationship with her both for myself and for my kids since I grew up with grandparents and I want that for them too. Am I being unrealistic? If you've been down this road and done anything short of cutoff, how have you done it and what's worked for you?

It is just as likely that she is depressed. Stop with the arm chair psychology.

Since the internet and round the clock therapy usage, everyone's a damn doctor. They use the lingo and everything.

OP-- you apparently grew up with good grandparents. If your mother is as you say she is (and posters really need to defer to you on that; you know her and they don't) then you can't "give" your kids the thing you had. You can only give them the gift of protecting them from the toxicity.

I say this as someone whose mother does have NPD, which our family counselor diagnosed: you are not doing your kids a favor by exposing them to her. Get your house in order. Get therapy so you have the strength to set boundaries and the clarity to know whether you really need her in your kids' lives or are simply continuing the lifelong struggle to accommodate and appease a narcissistic parent. Then decide how much you want to deal with her, if at all. But just know -- your kids won't have the grandparents you had. Instead they will have the infinitely more precious gift of a mother who isn't a narcissist.

Anonymous wrote:23:17 here. From what I've seen, YOU have to be VERY good at drawing boundaries and not letting yourself feel guilty or obligated to do anything for her. If she's causing you stress/anxiety/guilt, you will end up taking it out on your children, but perhaps you are self-aware enough to stop that or step back if you see that happening. I have only recently realized how bad I am at drawing boundaries and end up being a doormat, which ends up being bad for the people who are dependent on me. It takes a real force of will to keep me focused on making better decisions. Good luck.

+1. Also, I try not to set up a situation where my kids depend on her in any way or expect anything from her. She occasionally sends random presents, occasionally visits (briefly), and occasionally calls. She's not reliable. We also don't leave them alone with her.

23:17 here. From what I've seen, YOU have to be VERY good at drawing boundaries and not letting yourself feel guilty or obligated to do anything for her. If she's causing you stress/anxiety/guilt, you will end up taking it out on your children, but perhaps you are self-aware enough to stop that or step back if you see that happening. I have only recently realized how bad I am at drawing boundaries and end up being a doormat, which ends up being bad for the people who are dependent on me. It takes a real force of will to keep me focused on making better decisions. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:After many years of emotional abuse, I've realized my mom very likely has NPD (my whole life i knew there was something, I just didn't have a name for it). Things have gotten far worse between us since I've had my own children because I can't or won't accomodate her the way I used to. She's always angry with me about something, blames me for everything and says I don't want a relationship with her and I'll be sorry when she dies. In the past year and a half, she hasn't called me once, including on my birthdays but I've called her numerous times so she can talk with my kids. She's generally fine with them although she privately accuses me of keeping them away from her and being a terrible mom for various reasons. Anyway, despite all this I really would like to have some kind of at least cordial relationship with her both for myself and for my kids since I grew up with grandparents and I want that for them too. Am I being unrealistic? If you've been down this road and done anything short of cutoff, how have you done it and what's worked for you?

It is just as likely that she is depressed. Stop with the arm chair psychology.

I wish I had some answers for you, but all I have is a story of a similar mom that might give you some hope or ideas. People have suggested to me that my mom might have a personality disorder. She definitely has anxiety, depression, and ADHD, and she might be bipolar II. In the last year she has started taking an anti-anxiety med and adderall and started feeling so much better. She has gained some additional income, which has made life less oppressively stressful to just get her basic needs met. After those two things happened, she started dating someone who is a calming influence on her so now she has someone to talk to and isn't so alone. After years and years of terrible holiday blow ups, we just had a good Thanksgiving visit this year.

I don't have an answer to your question, but another poster here shared this link once, which I found to be very insightful:

http://outofthefog.net/

After many years of emotional abuse, I've realized my mom very likely has NPD (my whole life i knew there was something, I just didn't have a name for it). Things have gotten far worse between us since I've had my own children because I can't or won't accomodate her the way I used to. She's always angry with me about something, blames me for everything and says I don't want a relationship with her and I'll be sorry when she dies. In the past year and a half, she hasn't called me once, including on my birthdays but I've called her numerous times so she can talk with my kids. She's generally fine with them although she privately accuses me of keeping them away from her and being a terrible mom for various reasons. Anyway, despite all this I really would like to have some kind of at least cordial relationship with her both for myself and for my kids since I grew up with grandparents and I want that for them too. Am I being unrealistic? If you've been down this road and done anything short of cutoff, how have you done it and what's worked for you?