Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

Is your son dyslexic?

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

This may be true of service industry entrepreneurs, but the illegals are taking over that field so you are screwed

Too many people are going to college so you need another means to be at an advantage

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country is changing into a more South American model where there is no middle class. People may not be able to articulate it this way, but they sense that the affluent ship is pulling out of the harbor and are eager for their kids to be on board.

yep - we are turning into brazil norte.

This is what drives me. DH and I were born lower middle class and have had to work so, so hard to break (barely) into the UMC. We sacrifice like crazy to send our kids to private schools and pay for enrichment and athletics and push them fairly hard because we are terrified of what might happen to them if we don't. We don't make enough to leave them an inheritance of any real worth. They must be able to support themselves.

This sounds like such an exhausting way to live. There's a lot of black and white thinking in this entire thread. Do you ever question your assumptions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country is changing into a more South American model where there is no middle class. People may not be able to articulate it this way, but they sense that the affluent ship is pulling out of the harbor and are eager for their kids to be on board.

yep - we are turning into brazil norte.

This is what drives me. DH and I were born lower middle class and have had to work so, so hard to break (barely) into the UMC. We sacrifice like crazy to send our kids to private schools and pay for enrichment and athletics and push them fairly hard because we are terrified of what might happen to them if we don't. We don't make enough to leave them an inheritance of any real worth. They must be able to support themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I hope my kids will run their own business but it is tough in certain places for kids to start. We moved to Southern Califormia a couple of years ago. All the gardners are immigrants who drive down the price of lawn care. So people 14 people are paying him 160 a month? That's 2240 a month. That is what a full time job pays when you make minimum wage. No one here pays that much. Does he spend all day both Sturday and Sunday working?

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

That view assumes that a system of free enterprise will in fact remain the prevailing model. That's not preordained. But yes. There is money to be made in such pursuits because for most affluent parents, there is a stigma attached to manual labor. Not sure when that came to be. Fifteen years ago maybe.

There is a sense that, under W and the current president, this country has declined more rapidly than anyone thought possible. If we are indeed becoming some super stratified country, the importance of money is greater than ever. There has been a loss of community. White people view everything like a zero sum game.

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

good point, though I am concerned that those avenues will be closed off more and more with automation creeping up higher and higher the skill tree.

Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

Anonymous wrote:Because the country is changing into a more South American model where there is no middle class. People may not be able to articulate it this way, but they sense that the affluent ship is pulling out of the harbor and are eager for their kids to be on board.

yep - we are turning into brazil norte.

Because the country is changing into a more South American model where there is no middle class. People may not be able to articulate it this way, but they sense that the affluent ship is pulling out of the harbor and are eager for their kids to be on board.

A follow up to the bay area gunn high suicide article that just came out in the atlantic.

This is article is tailor made for dcum.

Gunn Article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/


The one this post is about: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/11/pressure-affluent-parents/417045/

It is really simple why this is the case:

But that does little to answer the question of why there is so much pressure in the first place. It turns out that there is a pretty straightforward—and ultimately very troubling—answer: It’s because the competition for a place among the country’s well-off is so vicious. To secure one of those spots, kids must gain admission to a relatively small number of elite colleges and universities, which “essentially did not grow but rather became increasingly selective” since the 1970s. (By contrast, in Canada, where higher education “lacks a steep prestige hierarchy,” the admissions competition is less dire.)

If you’re a doctor, lawyer, or MBA—you can’t pass those on to your kids

How sick is this line of thinking from one soccer mom (I don't blame her, it is a sickness in the structure of the culture and economy):

s one soccer parent told Friedman during her research on parenting in such a competitive culture, “I think it’s important for [my son] to understand that [being competitive] is not going to just apply here, it’s going to apply for the rest of his life. It’s going to apply when he keeps growing up and he’s playing sports, when he’s competing for school admissions, for a job, for the next whatever.” Friedman concludes, “Such an attitude prepares children for winner-take-all settings like the school system and lucrative labor markets.”

The pressure on kids may come from parents, but it’s the result of systemic forces so much bigger and so much more powerful than anything any household has control over.

In a sense, what wealthy parents are doing is working. There is very little social mobility in America, up or down, and most of those born into the richest and best-educated households will someday run their own high-earning, highly educated households.

I posted a similar comment a year or two ago in the ocllege section regarding how much of the desire to go to an ivy (and ivy peers) is to truly go to said school or learn from a particular department and how much of it is the access it confers.

I.E. if every elite employer suddenly said that for four years they will only take grads from schools ranked 100-200 and none from the ivy, would you see students en masse shift their preferences?

Now it iseems to be fleshed out - the answer is yes.

I think this pathology is what makes umc strivers the most insufferable people. Many times more so than the ignorant lumpenproletariat or the asshole ultra rich (though most ultra rich i know are actually pretty nice - probably because they are so comfortable in leisure).