Things also go badly when the principal chooses to close the LLIV to only level IV quailed kids + level III in subject. Our principal did this one year and there were only 16 kids in the AAP class (17-18 for math). The GE classes were pushing 30 kids and the GE parents were livid, and I don't blame them. But the prior year, when the Principal Placed to even the classes, there was a huge uproar, with angry parents trying to get the principal fired (because clearly if their DC was not selected the process was biased & unfair). Local centers with principal placement is lose-lose. I'm sure it's out there, but I've never heard of a school where it hasn't caused a lot of unhappiness (except maybe where the LLIV qualified kids happen to fall within +\- 2 students of the class average). And often more for the GE kids than the AAP ones who lose out.

Our base school does not have LLIV but it does have the advanced math track that our center follows.

So much drama at placement time and throughout the first month. So much discussion between the kids and comparison ove which kids are in which math level.

Almost no talk about AAP placement, except casual mention that so and so is going to switch next year.

Far more drama from pupil placed programs than from AAP where selection is from a central commitee.

In my opinion, they should keep centers at elementary school where there are more differences at the earlier ages and eliminate them or add them to every school at the middle school level, where late bloomers start to catch up.

I think the biggest need for centers is at the 3rd-5th grade levels because there is a big difference between fast burners and late bloomers. That gap closes the older the kids get.

My ideal is centers for elementary, more inclusive AAP at every middle school leading to what we currently have at high school. It makes the most sense.

^^^^good points all! Most of the PP's at our school seem definitely related to parent pandering (even by AAP parents who want their friend Johnny in the program too)-and it's really ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:We may as well get rid of the program since principals and pushy parents can just demand entry (I know of one at our school who's kid did not get in on his own merits and the principal finally just caved to the kid's mother's demands and put him in). Crazy....

This is what happens in LLIVs, to fill/balance classes. And in some places it creates a lot of resentment and a terrible atmosphere. All the people on this Board saying "close the Centers" need to realize that this would come to their ESs. Most of these people are saying that their GE kids are as smart as the AAP kids. But realize that more half of the parents in the grade (in our affluent LLIV) are sure their kids should PP. And there are a handful of spots. You think you're unhappy when some central committee refuses to put you DC in AAP at a Center your DC will never see? Wait until you DC does not PP and their bestie does. All he** breaks loose. I've seen it year after year. I was glad my DCs had the option of staying at their (very strong) local ES as part of their community. I don't know any parent who wants to put their kids through an unnecessary school change. But now, I'm starting to regret not moving DCs, because the atmosphere w/PP is nasty. I've seen ADULTS act badly toward my DCs (who are Level IV qualified and did not PP) because they are so upset their child was not PP'd

Anonymous wrote:We may as well get rid of the program since principals and pushy parents can just demand entry (I know of one at our school who's kid did not get in on his own merits and the principal finally just caved to the kid's mother's demands and put him in). Crazy....

You have absolutely no idea what the reasons were. Do you know if the kid had an IQ test? Do you know what his GBRS was? Do you know how he has done in the program? You have made assumptions and guesses into fact.

Anonymous wrote:We may as well get rid of the program since principals and pushy parents can just demand entry (I know of one at our school who's kid did not get in on his own merits and the principal finally just caved to the kid's mother's demands and put him in). Crazy....

Yep. I know of more than one at our center school. Parents routinely demand the school place their kids into AAP because "all their friends are in it." I kid you not.

Don't just get rid of the program because principals don't say "no" to the push parents. Get the test scores.

We may as well get rid of the program since principals and pushy parents can just demand entry (I know of one at our school who's kid did not get in on his own merits and the principal finally just caved to the kid's mother's demands and put him in). Crazy....

IME, the kids who are Principal placed have qualified for Level III services for the core subject class in which they are placed. Many students are smart enough for the AAP class in one or more of the four core subjects.

Anonymous wrote:I think it's crap personally and should not be permissible-or the kid placed should have to qualify by the objective criteria within a year of the principal placement. So unfair to those who go through proper channels to get in.

You really, really don't want to bring up "unfair." What is crap is the way in which AAP has been administered in the past several years.

Anonymous wrote:I think it's crap personally and should not be permissible-or the kid placed should have to qualify by the objective criteria within a year of the principal placement. So unfair to those who go through proper channels to get in.

So, if a school has 16 kids that qualify for AAP, but 34 that to not, under your rules, there would be 2 classes, one with 16, one with 34. Under the current rules, the AAP class will probably include 9 principal place kids, with each class having 25.

I think it's crap personally and should not be permissible-or the kid placed should have to qualify by the objective criteria within a year of the principal placement. So unfair to those who go through proper channels to get in.

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Anonymous wrote:Curious how many principal placements there are in your child's level IV AAP class? Seems like our school adds some in every year. Guessing 4 out of every 10 are principal placed.

It depends on how many Center eligible students remain at the base school for Local Level IV.

Last year's AAPAC report included the number of Center-eligible students remaining at the base school for Local Level IV by grade. See Appendix 2 starting at page 55.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/aapac/1415/AnnualReport1415.pdf

Curious how many principal placements there are in your child's level IV AAP class? Seems like our school adds some in every year. Guessing 4 out of every 10 are principal placed.