Anonymous wrote:Ok, so I consider myself an intelligent human and a very liberal one at that. I was raised Catholic, but never agreed with the archaic ways of the church. I have not gone to mass since I was out of high school except to baptize my children because my parents and in-laws would have suffered nervous breakdowns had I not done so. My children will not go to mass or do their first communions because my views differ so much from the Catholic church. BUT, I am a spiritual person, and I do believe in a higher being. The reason I have to believe is because my mind cannot understand the concept that something comes out of nothing. So for the universe and life to exist, there must have been something always there to kick the processes into motion. I hope I'm explaining myself so it's clear. This question is just out of curiosity, I have zero judgment for hardcore churchgoers or for Atheists. I'm just curious how Atheists rationalize existance of a planet, an asteroid or a life form without the existence of something prior. Thank you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so I consider myself an intelligent human and a very liberal one at that. I was raised Catholic, but never agreed with the archaic ways of the church. I have not gone to mass since I was out of high school except to baptize my children because my parents and in-laws would have suffered nervous breakdowns had I not done so. My children will not go to mass or do their first communions because my views differ so much from the Catholic church. BUT, I am a spiritual person, and I do believe in a higher being. The reason I have to believe is because my mind cannot understand the concept that something comes out of nothing. So for the universe and life to exist, there must have been something always there to kick the processes into motion. I hope I'm explaining myself so it's clear. This question is just out of curiosity, I have zero judgment for hardcore churchgoers or for Atheists. I'm just curious how Atheists rationalize existance of a planet, an asteroid or a life form without the existence of something prior. Thank you!

There are theories and hypothesis around the origin of our universe, we don't know which one is true, which one is close to the truth, or if none are true at all. Atheists are okay with not knowing. Just because we don't know with a reasonable degree of certainty the answer to something, doesn't mean we have to then assume that there is a supernatural explanation.

As for something out of nothing, the current scientific understanding is that the universe did indeed come from nothing. In quantum physics, something comes from nothing all the time. On a macro scale, the net energy of the universe has been calculated to be 0. Think about this result - the natural human assumption is that the universe with all the matter it contains, has a net positive energy. Yet observations, experiments, and calculations have shown this to be false. The net energy of the universe is 0. This makes it entirely possible, that the universe came from nothing, and we are so far only observing the observable part. None of this is proof positive that the universe came from nothing, but it is still far far more than evidence in support of a supernatural creator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so I consider myself an intelligent human and a very liberal one at that. I was raised Catholic, but never agreed with the archaic ways of the church. I have not gone to mass since I was out of high school except to baptize my children because my parents and in-laws would have suffered nervous breakdowns had I not done so. My children will not go to mass or do their first communions because my views differ so much from the Catholic church. BUT, I am a spiritual person, and I do believe in a higher being. The reason I have to believe is because my mind cannot understand the concept that something comes out of nothing. So for the universe and life to exist, there must have been something always there to kick the processes into motion. I hope I'm explaining myself so it's clear. This question is just out of curiosity, I have zero judgment for hardcore churchgoers or for Atheists. I'm just curious how Atheists rationalize existance of a planet, an asteroid or a life form without the existence of something prior. Thank you!

There are theories and hypothesis around the origin of our universe, we don't know which one is true, which one is close to the truth, or if none are true at all. Atheists are okay with not knowing. Just because we don't know with a reasonable degree of certainty the answer to something, doesn't mean we have to then assume that there is a supernatural explanation.

As for something out of nothing, the current scientific understanding is that the universe did indeed come from nothing. In quantum physics, something comes from nothing all the time. On a macro scale, the net energy of the universe has been calculated to be 0. Think about this result - the natural human assumption is that the universe with all the matter it contains, has a net positive energy. Yet observations, experiments, and calculations have shown this to be false. The net energy of the universe is 0. This makes it entirely possible, that the universe came from nothing, and we are so far only observing the observable part. None of this is proof positive that the universe came from nothing, but it is still far far more than evidence in support of a supernatural creator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That doesn't really make sense though. If you need God to exist to create the inverse out of nothing, what created God?

I grew up catholic too, even married someone else who grew up catholic, baptized our kids, but we are actually agnostic. Religion seems like a belief system created out of fear and certainty, because people didn't really understand science or the laws of physics or astronomy at the time. And people will always look for something to add meaning and deep dad to their lives. But it just seems like a lot of very wishful thinking when the simplest, most logical answer is that the universe (not some mysterious superpower) created itself, and that dead people are just dead and don't go to a special sky farm with angels and clouds.

God (at least the God of Christianity) always was and always will be. That cannot be understood but has to be accepted. That's what makes Him God.

Part of your problem, OP, is that you are trying to understand this with the limitations of the human mind in place. That is why I find Christianity so appealing. It is literally God coming to earth, with historical evidence that it happened. He came to us, in a form that we can understand.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so I consider myself an intelligent human and a very liberal one at that. I was raised Catholic, but never agreed with the archaic ways of the church. I have not gone to mass since I was out of high school except to baptize my children because my parents and in-laws would have suffered nervous breakdowns had I not done so. My children will not go to mass or do their first communions because my views differ so much from the Catholic church. BUT, I am a spiritual person, and I do believe in a higher being. The reason I have to believe is because my mind cannot understand the concept that something comes out of nothing. So for the universe and life to exist, there must have been something always there to kick the processes into motion. I hope I'm explaining myself so it's clear. This question is just out of curiosity, I have zero judgment for hardcore churchgoers or for Atheists. I'm just curious how Atheists rationalize existance of a planet, an asteroid or a life form without the existence of something prior. Thank you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so I consider myself an intelligent human and a very liberal one at that. I was raised Catholic, but never agreed with the archaic ways of the church. I have not gone to mass since I was out of high school except to baptize my children because my parents and in-laws would have suffered nervous breakdowns had I not done so. My children will not go to mass or do their first communions because my views differ so much from the Catholic church. BUT, I am a spiritual person, and I do believe in a higher being. The reason I have to believe is because my mind cannot understand the concept that something comes out of nothing. So for the universe and life to exist, there must have been something always there to kick the processes into motion. I hope I'm explaining myself so it's clear. This question is just out of curiosity, I have zero judgment for hardcore churchgoers or for Atheists. I'm just curious how Atheists rationalize existance of a planet, an asteroid or a life form without the existence of something prior. Thank you!

Then... where does God come from? If you cannot fathom the existence of a universe without a creator, how can you fathom the existence of God without a creator?

I was raised Muslim, but am an atheist. For me it comes down to realizing that the vision/characteristics of God are a reflection of the societies that birthed that version of God. So which version of God does one believe in? Why Allah, but not Jesus? Why Jesus, but not Vishnu? Why Vishnu, but not Zeus? Why Zeus, but not Osiris?

Why a compassionate, forgiving God, and not a vengeful, angry God?

Why a singular/monotheistic deity, and why not plural deities?

Why not ancestor deities? Why don't you leave offerings to deities?

Ultimately, they all are the same to me. If one version of god is "weird," then so are all of them. They're all reflective of social ideas/needs at the time, and no version is more right or more wrong. Thus, they're all are very clearly manmade concepts (at least to me, the way my mind works).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That doesn't really make sense though. If you need God to exist to create the inverse out of nothing, what created God?

I grew up catholic too, even married someone else who grew up catholic, baptized our kids, but we are actually agnostic. Religion seems like a belief system created out of fear and certainty, because people didn't really understand science or the laws of physics or astronomy at the time. And people will always look for something to add meaning and deep dad to their lives. But it just seems like a lot of very wishful thinking when the simplest, most logical answer is that the universe (not some mysterious superpower) created itself, and that dead people are just dead and don't go to a special sky farm with angels and clouds.

God (at least the God of Christianity) always was and always will be. That cannot be understood but has to be accepted. That's what makes Him God.

Part of your problem, OP, is that you are trying to understand this with the limitations of the human mind in place. That is why I find Christianity so appealing. It is literally God coming to earth, with historical evidence that it happened. He came to us, in a form that we can understand.

Anonymous wrote:That doesn't really make sense though. If you need God to exist to create the inverse out of nothing, what created God?

I grew up catholic too, even married someone else who grew up catholic, baptized our kids, but we are actually agnostic. Religion seems like a belief system created out of fear and certainty, because people didn't really understand science or the laws of physics or astronomy at the time. And people will always look for something to add meaning and deep dad to their lives. But it just seems like a lot of very wishful thinking when the simplest, most logical answer is that the universe (not some mysterious superpower) created itself, and that dead people are just dead and don't go to a special sky farm with angels and clouds.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so I consider myself an intelligent human and a very liberal one at that. I was raised Catholic, but never agreed with the archaic ways of the church. I have not gone to mass since I was out of high school except to baptize my children because my parents and in-laws would have suffered nervous breakdowns had I not done so. My children will not go to mass or do their first communions because my views differ so much from the Catholic church. BUT, I am a spiritual person, and I do believe in a higher being. The reason I have to believe is because my mind cannot understand the concept that something comes out of nothing. So for the universe and life to exist, there must have been something always there to kick the processes into motion. I hope I'm explaining myself so it's clear. This question is just out of curiosity, I have zero judgment for hardcore churchgoers or for Atheists. I'm just curious how Atheists rationalize existance of a planet, an asteroid or a life form without the existence of something prior. Thank you!