What if relativism really is the truth: i.e., "whatever you believe is true for YOU." So what you believe about post death is your fate. Christians are with Jesus in Heaven, Muslims are in their heaven, atheists just become nothing, or their energy/mass transforms into something else, reincarnationists reincarnate, etc. Maybe you get what you ask for?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Space, time , mass , life , physical laws , math , consciousness , existence.

All obviously creations from outside time itself.

We have nothing close to the mental capacity for God to explain creation . Sending Jesus was like us petting our cat or dog on the head. God wants to know who purrs and who bites.

and the ones who bite, he sends to hell He has to - it's part of his mysterious, divine plan that also involved having his son born of a virgin and having him killed as the only way he could figure out to save mankind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Space, time , mass , life , physical laws , math , consciousness , existence.

All obviously creations from outside time itself.

We have nothing close to the mental capacity for God to explain creation . Sending Jesus was like us petting our cat or dog on the head. God wants to know who purrs and who bites.

Is that in the BIble?

OP here. Thanks for the responses.

FWIW, when I wrote, I was in a place where I was looking out at mountains, and where I had to brake shortly before arriving to allow a little rabbit to get off the road. That kind of stuff gets one into a frame of mind conducive to such thoughts.

Anonymous wrote:Space, time , mass , life , physical laws , math , consciousness , existence.

All obviously creations from outside time itself.

We have nothing close to the mental capacity for God to explain creation . Sending Jesus was like us petting our cat or dog on the head. God wants to know who purrs and who bites.

Space, time , mass , life , physical laws , math , consciousness , existence.

All obviously creations from outside time itself.

Anonymous wrote:Suppose someone looks at the universe and is awestruck. And looks at life in its great variety and wonders how even millions of years of evolution could account for its formation. And that the person says "I don't understand how this came to be, but I would like a word I can use to refer to the amazingly unlikely fact of existence, so I'll call it God, since that's the closest English word I know."

Is that person a believer?

Or must a believer see God as an entity with whom we speak and who loves us?

You don't have to "believe" in the unlikely complicatedness of your own existence. You might recognize it, which is great.

Comparison: I don't say that I "believe" I love my kids-- it's something you recognize, understand, and know.

"Belief" implies that there is a choice, something that a person may or may not choose to believe in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fervently seek the truth with an open heart.

... You will find God. He stands at the door and knocks.

I thought it was the holy spirit who stood at the door knocking? Oh that was a different thread.

Jesus said "I stand at the door of your heart and knock. Open the door and I will live in communion with you".

A humble God who died for his friends. Beautiful .

Anonymous wrote:Suppose someone looks at the universe and is awestruck. And looks at life in its great variety and wonders how even millions of years of evolution could account for its formation. And that the person says "I don't understand how this came to be, but I would like a word I can use to refer to the amazingly unlikely fact of existence, so I'll call it God, since that's the closest English word I know."

Is that person a believer?

Or must a believer see God as an entity with whom we speak and who loves us?

I guess it's up to interpretation. To me, "God" implies a creator being. A being or thing that is in charge, and creates things, like the universe.

I do not believe in a creator, and I do not believe in a god, or any gods.

However, I do look around and often see so much beauty, and am awe of the night sky or the gorgeous peonies on my table, and how they came to be. I'm regularly humbled by regular, beautiful, often mundane things I see. I call it nature, or science, or energy.

While I might personally not understand the histories and development of such beauties, lots of other people do. While there are still things no one understands, I do believe in time we (humanity) will understand them. Always growing, always learning, always seeking, and always gaining new understanding.

Anonymous wrote:OP I think it happens in stages. The person you describe has acknowledged believing in something bigger than him/herself. So yes, they are a believer in that sense. The next step/ phase is to wonder what their role is in the universe that this God they now (sort of) believe in is, how they fit in, what purpose their life has, etc. That leads to further inquiry and -- generally, if they are going down the right path -- deeper belief. Growing closer and closer to this awesome God can take time but recognizing His existence is the first step in "believing," yes.

IOW, pp thinks there is only one right path and that is the one that will lead to belief in God -- and not just the Deist's god of the universe, I bet, but the Christian god with all his many ancient stories and myths that you are expected to believe in order to live with Him in Heaven (and avoid that other place he made for those who do not believe in Him)

Anonymous wrote:Fervently seek the truth with an open heart.

... You will find God. He stands at the door and knocks.

I thought it was the holy spirit who stood at the door knocking? Oh that was a different thread.

Fervently seek the truth with an open heart.

... You will find God. He stands at the door and knocks.

OP I think it happens in stages. The person you describe has acknowledged believing in something bigger than him/herself. So yes, they are a believer in that sense. The next step/ phase is to wonder what their role is in the universe that this God they now (sort of) believe in is, how they fit in, what purpose their life has, etc. That leads to further inquiry and -- generally, if they are going down the right path -- deeper belief. Growing closer and closer to this awesome God can take time but recognizing His existence is the first step in "believing," yes.

Depends on what you believe in. Every religion defines differently what a believer is. ..

Suppose someone looks at the universe and is awestruck. And looks at life in its great variety and wonders how even millions of years of evolution could account for its formation. And that the person says "I don't understand how this came to be, but I would like a word I can use to refer to the amazingly unlikely fact of existence, so I'll call it God, since that's the closest English word I know."

Is that person a believer?

Or must a believer see God as an entity with whom we speak and who loves us?