Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Validation PP here.

Yes--validation is very much like that book, which I like a lot and would also recommend. I am pretty sure validation techniques were behind many of the suggestions.

The universalization part is not mentioned in the book as I recall, and it is very important and powerful technique in validation.

One of the go to books for validation for BPD is "Stop Walking on Eggshells," also recommended. I don't wanted to get blasted as I did on the 11 year old with her own reality thread for suggesting BPD techniques for teenagers, but if a tool for something else helps, I say use it.

I think there is also a workbook that accompanies this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

Hello validation PP.
I saw you on the 11 year old with her own reality thread and I definitely wouldn't even think of blasting you at all.
I think that a lot of techniques such as validation is effective on anyone, mental illness or not.

Same here- I'm going to try to incorporate your techniques as well, they just sounds so much better when phrased in the nicer way.

NP. This is an awesome thread! I really appreciate the long post with dialogue. Really helpful examples.

Anonymous wrote:Validation PP here.

Yes--validation is very much like that book, which I like a lot and would also recommend. I am pretty sure validation techniques were behind many of the suggestions.

The universalization part is not mentioned in the book as I recall, and it is very important and powerful technique in validation.

One of the go to books for validation for BPD is "Stop Walking on Eggshells," also recommended. I don't wanted to get blasted as I did on the 11 year old with her own reality thread for suggesting BPD techniques for teenagers, but if a tool for something else helps, I say use it.

I think there is also a workbook that accompanies this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

Hello validation PP.
I saw you on the 11 year old with her own reality thread and I definitely wouldn't even think of blasting you at all.
I think that a lot of techniques such as validation is effective on anyone, mental illness or not.

OP--good luck. My DD is also an extrovert, and it wasn't until we went to a really good psychiatrist that we learned she in fact has a lot of anxiety.

We were dealing with a lot. Occasional cutting (nothing very entrenched), lying (pretty constant), stealing, skipping classes, and pot use on top of what turned out to be significant medical problems--she now has a visible disability.

Trying to change her behavior wasn't working, so as a last ditch effort I decided maybe I needed to change mine. Validation was really helpful--I went from being the worst mother in the whole f---ing world to being the best mother ever.

BTW, DD lasted one session in group DBT. It was too new-agey for her. We tried various therapists off on--last was a psychiatrist who totally over medicated her, but we have now found a cognitive behavior psychologist she really seems to click with and things are really coming together.

PP with the long posts - THANK YOU !!!! I am OP and this is immensely helpful. I'm going to pore over what you said and share with DH. The title "How not to walk on eggshells" sounds great too. We've used that phrase and want to know how to avoid doing that - this is SUCH a painful issue and we are wanting to work on this while we try and get into counseling. This kid isn't anxious on the outside and is very extroverted so we don't know what's going on.

Validation PP here.

Yes--validation is very much like that book, which I like a lot and would also recommend. I am pretty sure validation techniques were behind many of the suggestions.

The universalization part is not mentioned in the book as I recall, and it is very important and powerful technique in validation.

One of the go to books for validation for BPD is "Stop Walking on Eggshells," also recommended. I don't wanted to get blasted as I did on the 11 year old with her own reality thread for suggesting BPD techniques for teenagers, but if a tool for something else helps, I say use it.

I think there is also a workbook that accompanies this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

These tecniques sound a lot like the book I read " how to talk so kids will listen, how to listen so kids will talk"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1451663889/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1434311869&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=how+talk+so+kids+will+listen&dpPl=1&dpID=51FeMGS1n%2BL&ref=plSrch

It comes with 'exercises' and homework to practice.
Maybe it can help?

PP with long post here.

Validation is a technique developed to help cope with family members who have borderline personality disorder. BPD is essentially a disorder of emotional regulation. By definition it cannot be diagnosed before a person is 18. However, lots of pre-teens and teens have problems with emotional regulation, which IME makes validation very useful for dealing with adolescents.

In essence, the technique is aimed at validating strong emotions the BPD (or teen!) person is feeling while ratcheting them down so they can be in a position to think through solutions to whatever the problem is.

It is important to immediately validate whatever the feeling is. ("That must be so upsetting!") Knowing you are on their side (at least with regard to how she is feeling), the teen can then give some details on what happened. You respond empathetically and without judgment or without any statements that just might imply judgment (sometimes harder than it seems).

At a suitable point when you know more, you universalize the teen's feeling. (Anyone would be upset if that happened to them!") Personally, I think that is one of the most powerful aspects of validation because teens often think they are the only ones who have ever felt this way and it can be very isolating.

It is important to not shortcut this by having your first statement be something like "I'll bet you are mad; anyone would be outraged." It can come off as too stock and insincere if you do it often enough in part because you haven't yet heard the details--that's when you come in with the universalization.

There are a couple of rules, number one of which is "Don't validate that which should not be validated." Validating feelings is always okay; validating negative statements about others or bad behaviors is not.

IME, one of the words you have to ban from your vocabulary is "but." "I see why you are were upset, but the teacher needs to have homework turned in." Pre-validation faced with the rat situation I probably would have said something like, "I'm really sorry, but it's 3 in the morning. Let's deal with this in the morning."

One reason I gave the second example with the inward me was to show that you have to really filter your inner thoughts when practicing validation and this can be very difficult (especially at 3 in the morning!). My DH refuses to do this because he thinks he should be able to speak his mind and DD has to face the facts. Umm, no, she already knows the facts and the anxiety is killing her.

Along side this, it is really helpful to do the same with positive emotions but you don't have to be so careful, just mindful. DD: I took the trash out Me (in non-mindful mode): That's nice you are doing your chores. Do you know where I put the chopping board? Me (in mindful mode): You did? That's so great! I really appreciate it when you do your chores without being reminded. I so don't like nagging--thanks for being so helpful to me.

This may seem a bit overboard, but it actually helps a lot. At the beginning, you may have to seek out the tiniest positive thing to convey to your teen. "I noticed you hung your loofah brush on the hook. Thanks for doing that--you know how it really bothers me when I stumble over it on the tub floor."

Bless you for coming up with Larlat. May that be the DCUM generic name for pet rats forever more.

Hey pp with the long post. Thanks for that. I'd never heard of this technique, but I can hear echoes of myself in the "old me" and I thought how you phrased it was very helpful.

Ignore the meanies.

Thanks for sharing OP. You are making yourself a better parent by seeing how changing how/what you say makes a big difference. I have those "old me" versus "new me" versions myself and it does take a lot of effort to focus on the new me with parenting that your child needs.

And do ignore the drive by poster. And what is therapy? It's learning about yourself. We can all use therapy.

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Example 1 is totally made up. I was never that bad, although I was guilty of bits and pieces of it now and again. I put in the old me parts just to provide contrast to emphasize how validation works.

Example 2, on the other hand, is not made up. Inward me is pretty accurate but I don't think I would ever have said most of that aloud even pre-validation. I really did loathe even the idea of a rat.

That makes me feel better. I actually wasn't trying to be rude...I just had a mom who never figured out that saying things like how she hated my pet and how I'm annoying when she's trying to sleep aren't good thigs to say.

PP here. Example 1 is totally made up. I was never that bad, although I was guilty of bits and pieces of it now and again. I put in the old me parts just to provide contrast to emphasize how validation works.

Example 2, on the other hand, is not made up. Inward me is pretty accurate but I don't think I would ever have said most of that aloud even pre-validation. I really did loathe even the idea of a rat.

Okay, I'll give it a shot. I am sure you know the basics--never validate that which should not be validated (you were right to lie, for example), do not judge but empathize, universalize.

Example 1:

Old me: Why are you in such a bad mood? New me: You seem upset.

DD: I am upset! My teacher called me out in front of the whole class today!

Old me: Why? (Implicit: What did you do wrong?) New me: No wonder you are upset! That sounds so embarrassing!

DD: It wasn't my fault I forgot my homework!

Old me: Again? How many times have I told you to put your homework in the folder in your back pack as soon as you have finished it? New me: Oh! You must have been so frustrated you forgot it.

DD: I was. I keep trying so hard to remember and it is so unfair that the teacher said something in front of everyone.

Old me: Trying to isn't enough--what do you expect when you don't follow the rules? New me: I can't imagine how embarrassing it must have been to have that said in front of everyone, especially when you are trying so hard. Anyone would be upset at that.

DD: I guess I have to try harder.

Old me: Indeed you do or it is just going to get worse. New me: Maybe we need to come up with a better way for you to remember. (Brainstorming follows.)

Example 2 (more or less true as I remember it). This was early on in my foray into validation and made me aware of just how hard validating can be.

DD wakes me up at three in the morning to tell me her pet rat, which she knows I loathe, has died.

DD: Mommy, Larlat died!

Inward me: Thank God! Outward me, struggling to be validating in half awake stage: Are you sure? Larlat is too young to die.

DD: I'm sure, she's not moving and feels stiff.

Inward me: We better get rid of her immediately. Outward me: Oh! Poor Larlat! She was such a good rat, you must be so upset--you loved her so much!

DD: I did Mommy, I am so sad.

Inward me: Well I'm not--good riddance. Outward me: (Big hug and kiss.) Of course you are--anyone would be upset to have their pet die like that in the middle of the night.

DD: I am going to miss Larlat so much!

Inward me: Well I certainly won't. Outward me: I am so sorry, I know you'll miss her. She didn't deserve to die--she never did anything to hurt anyone.

DD: Mommy, can help me bury her?

Inward me: Yuck! Do I have to, can't we just call animal control or something? Outward me: Of course, she deserves a nice funeral. Maybe we can plan one in the morning.

DD: Yes--I'll invite my friends over who knew Larlat. I'll put her in a box for now and go to sleep. I'm so tired.

Inward me: So am I! Who wants to be woken up at three in the morning? Outward me: (Big hug and kiss again.) Okay, you really need some sleep after everything you and Larlat have been through and we'll have a big today tomorrow with her funeral.

We are learning about this technique and DBT, which we discovered after finding out our 13-14 yo child is cutting. Validation techniques are a part of DBT. While we are trying to find a counselor - who would have guessed it could be so hard to find DBT counselors who have space or are relatively near us - we are trying to start using validation as much as possible in our relationship with said child.

Anyway, for those who use this technique, can you give tips and examples of how to implement it. Any advice accepted as long as it's not bashing. Thanks.