Anonymous
04/29/2015 13:31
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The thing that bothers me about the school hopping is that, at least during early childhood, the changes are not always based on the actual experience of the child. They're based on the preferences of the parent. I'm not talking about leaving English-only for dual language, because that is more understandable to me. Many of my friends are super concerned about getting their 3yo into a good feeder pattern, and since there is only one feeder pattern that is acceptable, they are all jockeying to get into some elementary school that feeds to Deal, without considering whether the elementary school is the best fit for their child or their family or whether DEAL is the best fit for their child or their family, 6 years down the road.
It is kind of crazy-making to hear the following over and over:
"Susie has had such a great year at EOTP school but we are transferring to WOTP school next year. Yes, we know that it'll take an hour and change to get there, then get to work, but it's worth it, because we really want her to go to Deal."
This won't change until the EOTP schools get better in the upper grades (beyond 2nd) and the EOTP middle/high schools improve. I really can't blame parents for thinking in the long-term, especially if they own their property and can't easily move.
I understand and agree with this logic, but I also think that the likelihood of these things happening all on their own without the families of high achieving students is small. Clearly throwing money at the problem and building fancy new buildings is not going to solve the problem. So how does it happen?
Unfortunately, I don't know that it will when it is relatively easy to get into another OOB DCPS/charter when you keep playing the lottery year after year. That is the negative aspect of school choice, from my perspective.
Anonymous
04/29/2015 13:26
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The thing that bothers me about the school hopping is that, at least during early childhood, the changes are not always based on the actual experience of the child. They're based on the preferences of the parent. I'm not talking about leaving English-only for dual language, because that is more understandable to me. Many of my friends are super concerned about getting their 3yo into a good feeder pattern, and since there is only one feeder pattern that is acceptable, they are all jockeying to get into some elementary school that feeds to Deal, without considering whether the elementary school is the best fit for their child or their family or whether DEAL is the best fit for their child or their family, 6 years down the road.
It is kind of crazy-making to hear the following over and over:
"Susie has had such a great year at EOTP school but we are transferring to WOTP school next year. Yes, we know that it'll take an hour and change to get there, then get to work, but it's worth it, because we really want her to go to Deal."
This won't change until the EOTP schools get better in the upper grades (beyond 2nd) and the EOTP middle/high schools improve. I really can't blame parents for thinking in the long-term, especially if they own their property and can't easily move.
I understand and agree with this logic, but I also think that the likelihood of these things happening all on their own without the families of high achieving students is small. Clearly throwing money at the problem and building fancy new buildings is not going to solve the problem. So how does it happen?
Money and fancy new buildings may not close the achievement gap (because poverty and all that jazz). But some of these EOTP schools are teaching kids really well - just look at student growth.
So one step you can take is to check your assumptions about what makes a school "better".
Anonymous
04/29/2015 13:15
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The thing that bothers me about the school hopping is that, at least during early childhood, the changes are not always based on the actual experience of the child. They're based on the preferences of the parent. I'm not talking about leaving English-only for dual language, because that is more understandable to me. Many of my friends are super concerned about getting their 3yo into a good feeder pattern, and since there is only one feeder pattern that is acceptable, they are all jockeying to get into some elementary school that feeds to Deal, without considering whether the elementary school is the best fit for their child or their family or whether DEAL is the best fit for their child or their family, 6 years down the road.
It is kind of crazy-making to hear the following over and over:
"Susie has had such a great year at EOTP school but we are transferring to WOTP school next year. Yes, we know that it'll take an hour and change to get there, then get to work, but it's worth it, because we really want her to go to Deal."
This won't change until the EOTP schools get better in the upper grades (beyond 2nd) and the EOTP middle/high schools improve. I really can't blame parents for thinking in the long-term, especially if they own their property and can't easily move.
I understand and agree with this logic, but I also think that the likelihood of these things happening all on their own without the families of high achieving students is small. Clearly throwing money at the problem and building fancy new buildings is not going to solve the problem. So how does it happen?
Anonymous
04/29/2015 12:04
Subject: Re:Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Thanks OP. I just went through an agonizing process of trying to determine whether to accept spots for my kids at one of the DCUM-coveted charter schools.
In the end, I opted to stay in my inbound "transitioning" school. You summed up much of my reasoning quite well.
In the end, I opted to stay in my inbound "transitioning" school. You summed up much of my reasoning quite well.
Anonymous
04/29/2015 12:02
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Anonymous wrote:Just two studies cited, but it is food for thought
http://time.com/8854/study-switching-schools-may-make-your-kids-psychotic/
that scared the crap out of me! i went to school in so. md with the same kids give or take 2/3 from k-12th grade. husband was all over and in/out of schools for much of his childhood due to his parents careers. he says it made him such an introvert.
Anonymous
04/29/2015 11:48
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Just two studies cited, but it is food for thought
http://time.com/8854/study-switching-schools-may-make-your-kids-psychotic/
http://time.com/8854/study-switching-schools-may-make-your-kids-psychotic/
Anonymous
04/29/2015 11:45
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Anonymous wrote:The thing that bothers me about the school hopping is that, at least during early childhood, the changes are not always based on the actual experience of the child. They're based on the preferences of the parent. I'm not talking about leaving English-only for dual language, because that is more understandable to me. Many of my friends are super concerned about getting their 3yo into a good feeder pattern, and since there is only one feeder pattern that is acceptable, they are all jockeying to get into some elementary school that feeds to Deal, without considering whether the elementary school is the best fit for their child or their family or whether DEAL is the best fit for their child or their family, 6 years down the road.
It is kind of crazy-making to hear the following over and over:
"Susie has had such a great year at EOTP school but we are transferring to WOTP school next year. Yes, we know that it'll take an hour and change to get there, then get to work, but it's worth it, because we really want her to go to Deal."
This won't change until the EOTP schools get better in the upper grades (beyond 2nd) and the EOTP middle/high schools improve. I really can't blame parents for thinking in the long-term, especially if they own their property and can't easily move.
Anonymous
04/29/2015 11:45
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Why are you surprised PP? Are you faulting patents for considering the long-term? Those families would likely move out of DC if they didn't go to Deal.
Anonymous
04/29/2015 11:43
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
The thing that bothers me about the school hopping is that, at least during early childhood, the changes are not always based on the actual experience of the child. They're based on the preferences of the parent. I'm not talking about leaving English-only for dual language, because that is more understandable to me. Many of my friends are super concerned about getting their 3yo into a good feeder pattern, and since there is only one feeder pattern that is acceptable, they are all jockeying to get into some elementary school that feeds to Deal, without considering whether the elementary school is the best fit for their child or their family or whether DEAL is the best fit for their child or their family, 6 years down the road.
It is kind of crazy-making to hear the following over and over:
"Susie has had such a great year at EOTP school but we are transferring to WOTP school next year. Yes, we know that it'll take an hour and change to get there, then get to work, but it's worth it, because we really want her to go to Deal."
It is kind of crazy-making to hear the following over and over:
"Susie has had such a great year at EOTP school but we are transferring to WOTP school next year. Yes, we know that it'll take an hour and change to get there, then get to work, but it's worth it, because we really want her to go to Deal."
Anonymous
04/29/2015 11:35
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
OP, what school is your child enrolled?
Anonymous
04/29/2015 11:18
Subject: Re:Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Thanks, OP, for saying something that's been nagging at me about school choice. I don't fault any parent for making moves they feel are necessary for the best possible outcomes, but hardly anyone factors the impact of constant change on cohorts and on individual children. I'll admit that we lotteried this year for K just to see what we could get, but my kid had a pretty good year and I think familiarity with the staff and kids at his school is a good foundation for building on that success next year.
My main concern about the "fit" for this school was that dual language would slow him down in the basics of reading and math (I know I'm unlike others on this) but I've been pleasantly surprised at his amazing progress in both. If he stays in his EOTP DCPS (and he will) he'll likely be one of the kids raising thise test scores by third grade. If we move him, who knows what we'd get. I'm as jazzed as everyone else about HRCS, but many of them have soaring reputations based on trendiness alone while our neighborhood DCPS has proven itself for our family this year. We didn't make out in the lottery but I'm not certain we would have jumped - if for no other reason than that we wouldn't want to disrupt what's been working well thus far.
My main concern about the "fit" for this school was that dual language would slow him down in the basics of reading and math (I know I'm unlike others on this) but I've been pleasantly surprised at his amazing progress in both. If he stays in his EOTP DCPS (and he will) he'll likely be one of the kids raising thise test scores by third grade. If we move him, who knows what we'd get. I'm as jazzed as everyone else about HRCS, but many of them have soaring reputations based on trendiness alone while our neighborhood DCPS has proven itself for our family this year. We didn't make out in the lottery but I'm not certain we would have jumped - if for no other reason than that we wouldn't want to disrupt what's been working well thus far.
Anonymous
04/29/2015 10:15
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
I think this is a huge issue, especially for kids with bad options. I was a mentor/tutor in a low-income community in the District for nearly a decade (before the org sadly folded) and I had one kid I directly mentored over that time, but I also really got to know about 40 other kids in the program over the years after seeing them every week and some weekends. They lived in a troubled neighborhood with a not great local elementary and these kids hopped from one school, mostly charters, to the next each year as their parents sought better options. The kid I mentored went to at least 4 elementary schools, two middle schools, and two high schools before finally graduating. And his experience wasn't uncommon. Most of the kids weren't going to well-regarded charters, but small, newish ones that seemed, at least to me, disorganized and not terribly accountable (and I saw many kids displaced when their charters finally closed). I didn't see ways that the constant churn was helping the kids, rather, it seemed to further disconnect them from their schooling experience (you'd ask them where they went, and they would say X for now, but maybe Y next year and Z last year). Much of this was 5-7 years ago, and I get the sense the charters are better overseen now and I know the local elementary has had some rehab, So I hope things are different. But, this experience left me with the same questions as the OP. How much choice is too much, especially when your options to "trade up" are so constrained?
Anonymous
04/29/2015 10:03
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Some of these are legit, but some are just taking MD residents and bilking the city.
http://www.daycarecenterssite.com/Washington-DC.html
I believe that one of the Councilmembers was complaining about this but not sure if there ever was a crack down.
http://www.daycarecenterssite.com/Washington-DC.html
I believe that one of the Councilmembers was complaining about this but not sure if there ever was a crack down.
Anonymous
04/29/2015 09:58
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
Anonymous wrote:It seems to me what the JKLM vs. Lower NW and several other threads have in common is that some people object to 'school hopping', where parents 'trade-up' from year to year as they lottery into a better school or get into K in their own decent in-boundary DCPS.
I think limited school hopping is fine, especially when it can be justified as a better match or more suitable school for the student, but a lot of this churn is simply because parents are fickle and somehow believe the grass is greener. They somehow believe that by changing schools they're adding value to their child's education when in fact they're just slowing them down. And the people who are trading up every year are real disruptors.
From my experience, our DC's PK classes have seen 5 or 6 of the 15 leave every year to be replaced by new students. By the time we got to 1st we had only 4 kids left (out of 24) from the original group, and skills-wise all 4 are near the top of the class. With 80% of the school year done, the newcomers were still catching up and the classroom has had to deal with several disruptive students who didn't go through formal PK (instead coming from some of DC's daycare factories - which also get DCPS monies). We got through that and the classrooms operate great now. Later grades saw some turnover, but things look more solid now. Hopefully the churn is done.
So my unsolicited advice is this: If you're sure the school you'd like to switch to is better for your kid, then GO, but if you have doubts, stay where you are. The grass is rarely greener, and you might be surprised by how things work out.
Can you elaborate on the "daycare factories"? Are these publicly provided daycare that is neither private daycare nor PK at an ES? What/where/who are these?
Anonymous
04/29/2015 09:54
Subject: Elementary School hopping and How much Choice is too much?
It seems to me what the JKLM vs. Lower NW and several other threads have in common is that some people object to 'school hopping', where parents 'trade-up' from year to year as they lottery into a better school or get into K in their own decent in-boundary DCPS.
I think limited school hopping is fine, especially when it can be justified as a better match or more suitable school for the student, but a lot of this churn is simply because parents are fickle and somehow believe the grass is greener. They somehow believe that by changing schools they're adding value to their child's education when in fact they're just slowing them down. And the people who are trading up every year are real disruptors.
From my experience, our DC's PK classes have seen 5 or 6 of the 15 leave every year to be replaced by new students. By the time we got to 1st we had only 4 kids left (out of 24) from the original group, and skills-wise all 4 are near the top of the class. With 80% of the school year done, the newcomers were still catching up and the classroom has had to deal with several disruptive students who didn't go through formal PK (instead coming from some of DC's daycare factories - which also get DCPS monies). We got through that and the classrooms operate great now. Later grades saw some turnover, but things look more solid now. Hopefully the churn is done.
So my unsolicited advice is this: If you're sure the school you'd like to switch to is better for your kid, then GO, but if you have doubts, stay where you are. The grass is rarely greener, and you might be surprised by how things work out.
I think limited school hopping is fine, especially when it can be justified as a better match or more suitable school for the student, but a lot of this churn is simply because parents are fickle and somehow believe the grass is greener. They somehow believe that by changing schools they're adding value to their child's education when in fact they're just slowing them down. And the people who are trading up every year are real disruptors.
From my experience, our DC's PK classes have seen 5 or 6 of the 15 leave every year to be replaced by new students. By the time we got to 1st we had only 4 kids left (out of 24) from the original group, and skills-wise all 4 are near the top of the class. With 80% of the school year done, the newcomers were still catching up and the classroom has had to deal with several disruptive students who didn't go through formal PK (instead coming from some of DC's daycare factories - which also get DCPS monies). We got through that and the classrooms operate great now. Later grades saw some turnover, but things look more solid now. Hopefully the churn is done.
So my unsolicited advice is this: If you're sure the school you'd like to switch to is better for your kid, then GO, but if you have doubts, stay where you are. The grass is rarely greener, and you might be surprised by how things work out.