Anonymous
04/20/2015 18:10
Subject: Re:Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
Anonymous wrote:
The real question for them will be, unfortunately, how long it takes them to realize that they are just another log on the fire to their employers, a consumable faceless quantity, easily used up, discarded, and replaced.
I'm the PP poster who is still in the game, but not a cynic. There's an element of lambs to slaughter that is the legal profession. People don't realize the wash out rate and honestly looking at the costs (I gasped when I learned what the COA was at my law school).
It's a rough field that is plenty interesting but you need to be constantly vigilant. People want you to fail. Not just opposing counsel. Your bosses, your co-workers, etc. If you can thread the needle, it's fun, interesting and dynamic field. But only for those who survive.
PP here... since I made it for 33 years and had a pretty fair record of achievement and success, I think I can count myself as a survivor. But I also have seen clearly that there are many who survive who do not necessarily share the view throughout their career that it's "fun, interesting and dynamic[.]" It can be at times, it often is, but it is throughout for very few, for the 30+ years that will constitute a career for most. The really happy ones are the exception, unfortunately. That's not good for them, nor is it for the legal system, clients, or justice.
If you can break free of the lure of the Biglaw money and the illusion that it gains you any real control over your life, or even satisfaction, then you have a better chance to realize the fun, interesting & dynamic part.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 17:30
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
I'm a third year associate, and have found contracts incredibly boring since day 1! I went to school for criminal law, and to help people. I interned in the DA's office all through law school, and they couldn't afford to hire me. I needed to pay the bills, and was lucky to land something- anything! Three years later, I'm still putting in applications to DA offices, and not getting many leads. Such is life.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 16:59
Subject: Re:Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
The real question for them will be, unfortunately, how long it takes them to realize that they are just another log on the fire to their employers, a consumable faceless quantity, easily used up, discarded, and replaced.
I'm the PP poster who is still in the game, but not a cynic. There's an element of lambs to slaughter that is the legal profession. People don't realize the wash out rate and honestly looking at the costs (I gasped when I learned what the COA was at my law school).
It's a rough field that is plenty interesting but you need to be constantly vigilant. People want you to fail. Not just opposing counsel. Your bosses, your co-workers, etc. If you can thread the needle, it's fun, interesting and dynamic field. But only for those who survive.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 16:55
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well I'm a first year associate so I guess I qualify as an eager puppy or something, but hell yes I love what I do. Litigation is very mentally satisfying. Yeah the hours are long, but who doesn't work long hours? No matter what profession you're in, people work hard. So I don't mind the long hours too much - I genuinely enjoy the challenge of my work.
And on a more shallow level, a lot about it satisfies my more egotistical side. I love the money I earn, the beautiful office I work in, and the great political connections that my firm has in Washington DC. This is a great place to start a career.
This was fun to read. Come back in a couple years . . . let's see your soul then (I also was an eager beaver as a first year biglaw guy, then my soul died)
NP here. The first year's response made me giggle also, but it echos other first years I hear in my office.
I think my soul started dying at the end of my first year, so enjoy the next couple of months
The real question for them will be, unfortunately, how long it takes them to realize that they are just another log on the fire to their employers, a consumable faceless quantity, easily used up, discarded, and replaced.
I was lucky to get to do some very varied and interesting things in 33 years (trial work (real trial work, trying cases, not Biglaw civil litigation paper churning), criminal and civil trials and appeals (including making Haagen Dazs continue to supply a distributor they wanted to axe for a few months pending final decision in the case - that was fun), being a pro tem judge in Seattle (civil and criminal district courts), doing arbitration and mediation, and then many years of agency practice including litigation and then program management & criminal enforcement) ... but I'm glad I got the chance when I did, the business is far different now and it's even harder to find a path like that, I think...
Anonymous
04/20/2015 16:46
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well I'm a first year associate so I guess I qualify as an eager puppy or something, but hell yes I love what I do. Litigation is very mentally satisfying. Yeah the hours are long, but who doesn't work long hours? No matter what profession you're in, people work hard. So I don't mind the long hours too much - I genuinely enjoy the challenge of my work.
And on a more shallow level, a lot about it satisfies my more egotistical side. I love the money I earn, the beautiful office I work in, and the great political connections that my firm has in Washington DC. This is a great place to start a career.
This was fun to read. Come back in a couple years . . . let's see your soul then (I also was an eager beaver as a first year biglaw guy, then my soul died)
NP here. The first year's response made me giggle also, but it echos other first years I hear in my office.
I think my soul started dying at the end of my first year, so enjoy the next couple of months
Anonymous
04/20/2015 16:19
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
Anonymous wrote:Well I'm a first year associate so I guess I qualify as an eager puppy or something, but hell yes I love what I do. Litigation is very mentally satisfying. Yeah the hours are long, but who doesn't work long hours? No matter what profession you're in, people work hard. So I don't mind the long hours too much - I genuinely enjoy the challenge of my work.
And on a more shallow level, a lot about it satisfies my more egotistical side. I love the money I earn, the beautiful office I work in, and the great political connections that my firm has in Washington DC. This is a great place to start a career.
This was fun to read. Come back in a couple years . . . let's see your soul then (I also was an eager beaver as a first year biglaw guy, then my soul died)
Anonymous
04/20/2015 14:46
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult field because the work while interesting is not enough to combat a profession that is hell bent on killing your humanity. Ostensibly, having gone to a tippy top law school and done well, you'll think you're set. But you're not.
I can give you a happily ever after. But it was the product of my absolute grit and determination not to end up professional road kill.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 17 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning. I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
Yikes, if this is what you define as "winning," we are all screwed!!!!
Anonymous
04/20/2015 14:11
Subject: Re:Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
I love my profession. I worked at several legal fields through out my life and truly enjoyed it. My kids are older now and I am exploring even one more legal field. There are so many possibilities in our profession! I worked through out both of my pregnancies and with the second one, my waters broke in the courtroom. And no, I didn't have a school loans to repay back, I just like what I am doing.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 14:10
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
It's a difficult field because the work while interesting is not enough to combat a profession that is hell bent on killing your humanity. Ostensibly, having gone to a tippy top law school and done well, you'll think you're set. But you're not.
I can give you a happily ever after. But it was the product of my absolute grit and determination not to end up professional road kill.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 17 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning. I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
I can give you a happily ever after. But it was the product of my absolute grit and determination not to end up professional road kill.
I was that woman who got the lukewarm review (where I was told I was an idiot and never would accomplish anything of merit) and somehow landed a federal clerkship in what felt like minutes before the ax came for me. I am that woman who somehow parlayed that federal clerkship into an AUSA position (in flyover country but seriously who cares. I loved every second of my AUSA life). I was that woman who went through the revolving door and spent a bit of time as a biglaw partner before realizing that the game was as awful as I remembered as a much younger woman. I am that woman who had a (3rd) baby and decided to chuck it and am happily working in house.
I have spent more than 17 years running from patch to patch, job to job. I am always job hunting. I will always be job hunting until I retire. It is exhausting but I enjoy practicing law and have found ways to stay one step ahead of an industry hell bent on destroying my humanity. I am a white collar migrant worker. I have worked on both coasts. In major and tiny cities. And I will go anywhere if the deal is right and it keeps me afloat. I will survive. And I will do it with integrity.
I’m a kind person. I’m a good mom and wife. I volunteer and teach ESL on Sundays morning. I have a nice home and am eeking out an existence. I love my job. Absolutely love the day to day of being an attorney. But the industry? It’s hard. Really hard. And you have to be tough and you have to have no scruples because no one cares one whit about ruining your life if it would get them an inch closer to whatever they define as success. Law is a ruthless profession and I say that as someone who ostensibly “won” out.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 14:02
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
Well I'm a first year associate so I guess I qualify as an eager puppy or something, but hell yes I love what I do. Litigation is very mentally satisfying. Yeah the hours are long, but who doesn't work long hours? No matter what profession you're in, people work hard. So I don't mind the long hours too much - I genuinely enjoy the challenge of my work.
And on a more shallow level, a lot about it satisfies my more egotistical side. I love the money I earn, the beautiful office I work in, and the great political connections that my firm has in Washington DC. This is a great place to start a career.
And on a more shallow level, a lot about it satisfies my more egotistical side. I love the money I earn, the beautiful office I work in, and the great political connections that my firm has in Washington DC. This is a great place to start a career.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 13:03
Subject: Re:Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
I did for my first several years of practice (big law), and then realized I was pouring so much time and effort into essentially moving money around between big companies that would just make more. It felt pretty soulless after that, so I quit my job to be a SAHM while doing pro bono work through a couple of clinics. My clients now are people who need legal services for really important things, and it's a lot more fulfilling.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 12:57
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
I had a passion for it for probably the first 15 or so years of my career. I did criminal trials and appeals (public defender agency) and the appellate work was very interesting and rewarding (not financially).
Two years in private practice were not fun. The first 10 years of federal agency practice were also fun, interesting work, lots of responsibility, etc.
By the late 1990s the chipping away at the professionalism and respect for attorneys in federal agencies (by Clinton, Bush II, and Obama), combined with the general decline in the professionalism of legal practice into just another make-money grind, took away a lot of the passion. I had passion for about 30-40% of what I did, which was enough for 15 yrs. or so.
But when I had a chance to retire a couple of years early I took and and after 33 years of lawyering, I'm pretty much done with it.
If I were to go back it would be at a small firm focusing on my areas of expertise, I would never go for Biglaw. Nearly everyone I know there is miserable and we'd get resumes from many seeking a federal agency job when we had openings (which was rare) in my specialized area of practice.
Two years in private practice were not fun. The first 10 years of federal agency practice were also fun, interesting work, lots of responsibility, etc.
By the late 1990s the chipping away at the professionalism and respect for attorneys in federal agencies (by Clinton, Bush II, and Obama), combined with the general decline in the professionalism of legal practice into just another make-money grind, took away a lot of the passion. I had passion for about 30-40% of what I did, which was enough for 15 yrs. or so.
But when I had a chance to retire a couple of years early I took and and after 33 years of lawyering, I'm pretty much done with it.
If I were to go back it would be at a small firm focusing on my areas of expertise, I would never go for Biglaw. Nearly everyone I know there is miserable and we'd get resumes from many seeking a federal agency job when we had openings (which was rare) in my specialized area of practice.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 12:50
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
I do criminal law. I do find it fun and interesting. Sad at time but since I write appeals, the bad stuff has already happened long ago and the defendant is in prison and I am dealing with interesting facts and lots of caselaw.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 12:49
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
I think my area of law is intellectually interesting, socially useful, and not that important, not life-or-death.
I did biglaw for awhile, and am now happy at my small firm. Love it? Hate or dislike it? Nope.
DH is in an entirely different area and feels the same. Although he's a government lawyer, and he does affect people's lives.
I did biglaw for awhile, and am now happy at my small firm. Love it? Hate or dislike it? Nope.
DH is in an entirely different area and feels the same. Although he's a government lawyer, and he does affect people's lives.
Anonymous
04/20/2015 11:46
Subject: Spin off: Lawyers do you have a passion for your line of work?
Another post had a comment about no one has passion for law and I tend to kind of see this in my own household. I am a physician and I work with many doctors who just want to make a lot of money but I also work with many many others who are truly dedicated to their line of work. Especially ones who spend years of their lives researching and never really "getting credit/making it big" but doing tons of backbone work for the field. I also know physicians who makes way less money then they did ten years ago and work way more hours but don't mind because medicine is what we do. I feel very similar and am realizing as I get older how blessed I am to feel that way. My husband is a lawyer and truly has no passion and even a slight dislike for his line of work. For years I thought he was a "work to live person" and maybe I was a "live to work person" but I am finding over the course of decades together in the same social circle almost no lawyer I know likes their job. I just really see very little self satisfactory in the field and was curious to see if maybe my sample was just a random error or if it seems to ring true. Anyone care to chime in?