Anonymous wrote:Several years ago I had lengthy conversations with the Central Administration about a Principal who had received complaints for years. The central administration was well aware of the complaints but did nothing other than possibly some coaching as the Principal was out of the school for about a month. It seems nearly impossible to have a Principal removed, not sure why as in many districts, including DC, Principals are routinely removed. As Principals, they can't be union and not clear why the extreme reluctance to act against weak Principals. Your best bet is to get them promoted into Central Admin., which does seem to happen on occasion though some of the promotions are also legitimate.

Peter Principle

just might happen to my principal . . .

Several years ago I had lengthy conversations with the Central Administration about a Principal who had received complaints for years. The central administration was well aware of the complaints but did nothing other than possibly some coaching as the Principal was out of the school for about a month. It seems nearly impossible to have a Principal removed, not sure why as in many districts, including DC, Principals are routinely removed. As Principals, they can't be union and not clear why the extreme reluctance to act against weak Principals. Your best bet is to get them promoted into Central Admin., which does seem to happen on occasion though some of the promotions are also legitimate.

Anonymous wrote:

This problem was around long before Starr and Weast so more is needed to fix public education in Montgomery County than just changing the Superintendent.

All it would take would be a new Superintendent to fire a few people and this will scare the rest. They all desperately want you to believe that no one can fire them just because the last Superintendent was a wimp. The acceptance of poor performance and promoting incompetent staff in MCPS is appalling.

I guarantee you that if the principals that covered up the sex abuse cases were fired, then the remaining principals would start paying attention. I guarantee you that if a few high placed people at the curriculum office that developed this mess that is 2.0 were fired, then the remaining staff would stop defending it and we might have some hope of fixing it. These people aren't leaders they are leeches and only care about their survival. A strong leader can clean house enough to bring in others that will take care of the rest.

+ 2 million

If I wanted to make the administration aware of a problem where do I write?

This problem was around long before Starr and Weast so more is needed to fix public education in Montgomery County than just changing the Superintendent.

All it would take would be a new Superintendent to fire a few people and this will scare the rest. They all desperately want you to believe that no one can fire them just because the last Superintendent was a wimp. The acceptance of poor performance and promoting incompetent staff in MCPS is appalling.

I guarantee you that if the principals that covered up the sex abuse cases were fired, then the remaining principals would start paying attention. I guarantee you that if a few high placed people at the curriculum office that developed this mess that is 2.0 were fired, then the remaining staff would stop defending it and we might have some hope of fixing it. These people aren't leaders they are leeches and only care about their survival. A strong leader can clean house enough to bring in others that will take care of the rest.

It seems that the BOE should be looking into the inefficiencies of all the layers of bureaucracy between the principals and superintendent. Problems go unaddressed and unfixed. Parents are unhappy and teachers are unhappy but no one at the Carver Center cares about their feedback because everyone else has eyes on that next promotion or just kicking up their heels till they can cash in their retirement. This problem was around long before Starr and Weast so more is needed to fix public education in Montgomery County than just changing the Superintendent.

I am a parent at a school with a terrible principal. And pretty much everyone knows the principal is terrible. Parents have called, letters have been written, and I know teachers are unhappy. Yet, central office does nothing.

My school's climate scores also fell through the floor this year, though I don't think it is really the principal's fault. I do wonder though if there is any follow up to address the teachers' points of concern. Climate is so important. What really bothers me is how MCPS moves administrators around so frequently. Part of a good climate is consistency in leadership, especially if morale is low and it isn't the administrator's fault. I think the county's view is that the schools will be fine no matter how much change is imposed on them, particularly in high SES areas, and that simply isn't true. Even the best performing schools start to fall apart without consistent leadership.

Principals are under OSP. The performance director examines how well a school functions based on data. The community supt is more hands-off but deals with evaluations.

However, it takes quite a bit of data to place an administrator on PAR, and it certainly makes his/her supervisor look bad. So oftentimes, they try to "coach" the principal, and when that fails, they'll take a more direct approach. But more often than not, it's easier to "promote" them - as they're away from schools, which limits the direct damage they can do.

Climate surveys often amount to nothing. Our school ranked at the bottom. So while admin is addressing the issues (by force, I assume), they aren't dealing with the day-to-day issues we've been addressing as a staff.

So we're a cruise ship headed toward Barbados - but with huge holes on the bottom. If you don't address the here and now, there's no such thing as a future.

Which begs the question of what can you do to get a bad principal on the radar of the central administration? Ours is a great manipulator and does a lot of things --not quite illegal but not really ethical either -- to keep test scores high. I wish someone would look in to this. Also has a horrible rep for discriminating against SN kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, as a MCPS teacher, I'd like principals to be held to higher standards than they are currently. Unannounced observations would be nice. Whenever my principal's boss comes to our school my principal puts on a dog and pony show, complete with homemade snacks, and the boss just eats it up (literally and figuratively).

I'd like the boss to see how the principal behaves when no one is scheduled to come for a visit. Kind of like how teachers have unannounced observations. Because there is a night and day difference but no one would ever see that during the highly scheduled and structured visits. I would also like for associate superintendents to solicit feedback from school staff on what actually goes on in the school.

Pipedream, though.

Unannounced visits really wouldn't make a difference for a crappy principal unless the superintendent walked in on the exact moment a principal was taking a nap or berating a teacher. A principal's day looks so different at every moment whereas a teacher's is much more predictable in terms of where you'll be, who you're with and what's going on. Also during an unannounced visit, a principal can stop and chat with the superintendent. When a teacher is observed, whether announced or unannounced, the lesson goes on. There is little, if any, interaction between the teacher and principal.

Surveys, on the other hand, are great ways to tap into what's going on. The key is to make sure they're written well. Is there any kind of Working Conditions Survey in MCPS? In Fairfax, one is administered every 2 years, and it's publicly reported. Go to www.fcpswcs.org to see the types of questions.

Teacher PP here. There are climate surveys every year in mcps. The questions are pretty bad. Like "do you have a best friend at work?" Plus at schools with a principal and an assistant principal there is nothing that differentiates between them on the survey. So if you have a terrible principal but a great AP, you can't give specific feedback on each individual. But none of that really matters because my principal told the whole staff that those questions about leadership pertain to only the school's leadership team (comprised of teachers), not the administration. So, if that is the case, there are zero questions on the survey asking for feedback on the administrators.

Our climate survey came back with some pretty dismal numbers this year, and instead of the principal reflecting on why that occurred, the principal said that next year the staff should meet before taking the survey to make sure that we all are on the same page with regard to understanding the questions to make sure we're answering them appropriately. In other words, coaching our responses. Great survey validity!

Anonymous wrote:Actually, as a MCPS teacher, I'd like principals to be held to higher standards than they are currently. Unannounced observations would be nice. Whenever my principal's boss comes to our school my principal puts on a dog and pony show, complete with homemade snacks, and the boss just eats it up (literally and figuratively).

I'd like the boss to see how the principal behaves when no one is scheduled to come for a visit. Kind of like how teachers have unannounced observations. Because there is a night and day difference but no one would ever see that during the highly scheduled and structured visits. I would also like for associate superintendents to solicit feedback from school staff on what actually goes on in the school.

Pipedream, though.

Unannounced visits really wouldn't make a difference for a crappy principal unless the superintendent walked in on the exact moment a principal was taking a nap or berating a teacher. A principal's day looks so different at every moment whereas a teacher's is much more predictable in terms of where you'll be, who you're with and what's going on. Also during an unannounced visit, a principal can stop and chat with the superintendent. When a teacher is observed, whether announced or unannounced, the lesson goes on. There is little, if any, interaction between the teacher and principal.

Surveys, on the other hand, are great ways to tap into what's going on. The key is to make sure they're written well. Is there any kind of Working Conditions Survey in MCPS? In Fairfax, one is administered every 2 years, and it's publicly reported. Go to www.fcpswcs.org to see the types of questions.

Actually, as a MCPS teacher, I'd like principals to be held to higher standards than they are currently. Unannounced observations would be nice. Whenever my principal's boss comes to our school my principal puts on a dog and pony show, complete with homemade snacks, and the boss just eats it up (literally and figuratively).

I'd like the boss to see how the principal behaves when no one is scheduled to come for a visit. Kind of like how teachers have unannounced observations. Because there is a night and day difference but no one would ever see that during the highly scheduled and structured visits. I would also like for associate superintendents to solicit feedback from school staff on what actually goes on in the school.

Pipedream, though.

So you're implication is that principals have no supervisors, are not evaluated and have no one to report to? Is that it? Because for what you posted to be correct, that would have to be what is happening--no principal is accountable to anyone.

With all the levels of bureaucracy at the Central Office (Carver Center), does anyone ever review data (testing, bullying reports, discipline reports, etc.) and do on sight inspections of the schools?
It seems that schools operate much as their own little fiefdoms and no one follows up to see if the intended curriculum and policies from the Central Office are actually implemented. With unionized employees, bad teachers and administrators can just punch in and punch out without any care of how they do their jobs. Any wonder why the public school system is so broken?