Anonymous wrote:I married in my early 20s, had 2 kids and stayed home for 5 years, then went back to school, received masters degree and was hired off campus by a very prestigious consulting firm.

So perhaps it makes more sense to have the kids and stay home earlier in life because if something happens to your marriage, you are still young and hot, and other men and employers still want you a lot

Yeah, I'm sure "young and hot" are the absolute best attributes a mom can have, and they are super-critical to being a good parent.

What you need to do, OP, and what every woman needs to do, is support rational maternity leave policies like those in literally EVERY OTHER developed country. Canada, for example, gives women 52 paid weeks of maternity leave. A woman there doesn't need to choose between work and SAH, she can be there for the first, crucial year and return to work. I know I would have been SO much more likely to be on-track career wise if I had a full year to learn about being a mom and raise my baby/nurse/make it through PPD than here with our backwards, shitty policies that are very anti-family and pro-corporation.

I married in my early 20s, had 2 kids and stayed home for 5 years, then went back to school, received masters degree and was hired off campus by a very prestigious consulting firm.

So perhaps it makes more sense to have the kids and stay home earlier in life because if something happens to your marriage, you are still young and hot, and other men and employers still want you a lot

Anonymous wrote:As I deal with the ramifications of leaving my spouse who became abusive and drug addicted (wasnt that way at the outset, but that really doesnt matter now) I have to wonder whether it is EVER anything but risky to go into business with your spouse or to give up making your own independent income for ANY reason.

Granted, there are marriages that work out. Granted, there are spouses who work together and it works out too. And granted there are SAHM's who end up in happy marriages with mentally healthy men and all of that. I get that. But I have to wonder, just from a sheer numbers perspective, if being a sole income family is a good thing. Should a woman EVER let herself become financially dependent on a man?

I did not know how to have a "Plan B". There is a lot of stuff about money I didn't know about because my family never had any. I received merit based scholarships for college, and I worked hard these 20 years with my husband supporting his business, and while eventually became part of the pathology of that relationship, it sure didnt seem to be that at the beginning. By all measures it was a partnership of sorts.

So now that I am 46 and not 25 (the age I married) and seeing what can happen, how one can find oneself at middle age with a school age child and no real job prospects, how many mental and spiritual resources I have put into ensuring the safety and well being of my child, to my husbands zero efforts so far, I ask myself: are women equal enough to men in practical terms that they can ever afford not to worry about the "what if"?

My answer would be hell no. I would advise ANY woman to never give up, for any significant amount of time, the things that are only made possible with having her own source of income. Yet I believe so much in the wonderful gift that is the chance to raise your own kid. And I suppose if one married someone very wealthy, and was savvy in ensuring that monies were allocated in a fair way while still married, that some protection could be afforded during divorce. But divorce for most real people seems to largely involve walking away with any protection.

I completely understand that we all don't have the same options. Many women will never even know what its like to not have to work a full-time job, yet is their situation really any more stable if it comes to divorce?

What do you moms tell your daughters about this? I will advise my daughter in very detailed ways about money, so she can at least know the things I was never taught but learned the hard way.

First thing to tell your daughter: don't buy the line that the only way to "raise your own kid" is to not work a paying job. Working mothers manage to raise their own kids just fine.. and their own 401ks.

I would tell every young woman who is giving up her job for any period of time (to raise a family) to ensure that there is a post-nup in place that will provide monetarily for her contributions to the marriage in the case of divorce. I would actually say the same for stay at home dads.

The courts do not reward stay at home parents at all (no alimony anymore, no recognition of career sacrifices and the impact on salary because of the years away from work).

Having said that, I think leaving work and raising kids is absolutely one of the best things I ever did. I can think of nothing in my life that has made me more happy or given me more joyful memories than having that time with my son.

As a divorced single mom, I am now in a position where I can not find employment in my field and have resorted to applying for administrative positions. It's really tough to be 50 and looking for work after being out of the workforce for 15 years. If I could do it all again, I would have at least worked part-time to keep my job skills and resume more current.

Anonymous wrote:Not all men are abusive and drug addicts. I was raised where women work and my mom for your logic was horrified that I stayed home. It was unheard of in our family. I have a masters degree but if I go back now - 5 years out, my income will be small and I'd basically have to start all over so its not worth it to me. Plus, our children have some very mild special needs that still require therapy and support. It works for our family and my husband is very supportive. We've talked about me going back but I also have some health issues. I am ok with knowing my husband will take care of me as it is his second marriage and despite how he was treated by his ex, he was always supportive of her and the kids. If I look at his patterns of behaviors, he'll still be there for me and our kids. but in your case, if he had a pattern, no way I would have stopped working.

I don't have daughters but if I did, I would insist they get their education and work at least 5 years and then make the choice for themselves. I see the benefits for our family of me being home, but having both my parents working was no big deal either so I think its more important for the mom to be happy and ok with her decision as long as they can afford it.

I think you missed OP's point. He didn't have those issues when she first married him. It happened over time.

I think the point is that even if you have a great marriage right now, you never know how things could change. an inlaw of mine is facing divorce. She didn't see it coming. No one did. they had a great marriage. He even admits it was great. He just happened to meet another woman. You just never know.

My advice to a woman who decides to stay home to care for children is to get a pre or post-nup. It doesn't matter if you have an education and "work at least 5 years." Once you are out of the workforce for 5 years, it can be difficult to get back in, especially at the salary you made before. OP's point is long term being able to support yourself.

The other issue is death. Most employer-provided life insurance plans aren't enough for a family to live on indefinitely without the wife having to go back to work at some point. I don't think people pay enough attention to that sort of thing.

Anonymous wrote:Gosh, it's a great question.

I grew up with a divorced mom who is now essentially penniless who had no financial skills and didn't work. She was divorced twice and is flaky. There's a good chance she'll be moving in with me which shakes me to the core.

Thus I think it's critical to work and be able to support yourself financially as you just don't know what's around the corner. BUT...

I work FT as does my DH. I really wish one of us was at least PT (and I wish it was me. I can't stand my job). I feel like I am missing out on time with my kids and that life is really blowing past me too fast. I hate it. I think there are lots of times my kids hate it too.

So, in sum, I'm not sure what I'll tell DD.

You'll know exactly what to tell her when your mother moves in.

Not all men are abusive and drug addicts. I was raised where women work and my mom for your logic was horrified that I stayed home. It was unheard of in our family. I have a masters degree but if I go back now - 5 years out, my income will be small and I'd basically have to start all over so its not worth it to me. Plus, our children have some very mild special needs that still require therapy and support. It works for our family and my husband is very supportive. We've talked about me going back but I also have some health issues. I am ok with knowing my husband will take care of me as it is his second marriage and despite how he was treated by his ex, he was always supportive of her and the kids. If I look at his patterns of behaviors, he'll still be there for me and our kids. but in your case, if he had a pattern, no way I would have stopped working.

I don't have daughters but if I did, I would insist they get their education and work at least 5 years and then make the choice for themselves. I see the benefits for our family of me being home, but having both my parents working was no big deal either so I think its more important for the mom to be happy and ok with her decision as long as they can afford it.

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think that a woman should always keep her foot in the door but because of the price of child care and the stress of being a working mom, some women feel the need to stay at home for their own sanity. Perhaps the bigger issue is how can we make motherhood and working compatible.

Well said.

Personally, I think that a woman should always keep her foot in the door but because of the price of child care and the stress of being a working mom, some women feel the need to stay at home for their own sanity. Perhaps the bigger issue is how can we make motherhood and working compatible.

I married later in life and already had some financial security of my own. Plus I feel very comfortable with our marriage. So not losing any sleep over not having a salary right now.

I think divorce rates of people who get married older drop down significantly. And overall the divorce rate really isn't 50% or whatever they've been saying.

Unfortunately, many people (especially in DCUM World) just blow a gasket if anyone dares to plan in such a way that might be construed as "planning for your marriage to fail." All monies must be held jointly. No woman must ever think of the possibility that they may end up divorced and thereby make some plans to not be caught penniless in such a situation.

I just don't get it. You put on a seatbelt when you are a passenger in a car, even if you have 100% confidence in the driver. Things happen, and so you take a pretty easy step to guard against something that is unlikely to happen, but can still be catastrophic if it does.

I'll be interested to see the responses.

Gosh, it's a great question.

I grew up with a divorced mom who is now essentially penniless who had no financial skills and didn't work. She was divorced twice and is flaky. There's a good chance she'll be moving in with me which shakes me to the core.

Thus I think it's critical to work and be able to support yourself financially as you just don't know what's around the corner. BUT...

I work FT as does my DH. I really wish one of us was at least PT (and I wish it was me. I can't stand my job). I feel like I am missing out on time with my kids and that life is really blowing past me too fast. I hate it. I think there are lots of times my kids hate it too.

So, in sum, I'm not sure what I'll tell DD.

OP again- I should add that I am actually doing just fine and believe I will be able to find a position and work my way up into something reasonable. Ive worked a few part time jobs, and feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. I dont feel sorry for myself. Crap happens, and it happens to be happening to me. But Im just thinking outside of myself here, into a more "global" idea of women and financial dependence on men. I think of that as old fashioned, but I suspect its more common than I thought in "modern industrialized countries".

As I deal with the ramifications of leaving my spouse who became abusive and drug addicted (wasnt that way at the outset, but that really doesnt matter now) I have to wonder whether it is EVER anything but risky to go into business with your spouse or to give up making your own independent income for ANY reason.

Granted, there are marriages that work out. Granted, there are spouses who work together and it works out too. And granted there are SAHM's who end up in happy marriages with mentally healthy men and all of that. I get that. But I have to wonder, just from a sheer numbers perspective, if being a sole income family is a good thing. Should a woman EVER let herself become financially dependent on a man?

I did not know how to have a "Plan B". There is a lot of stuff about money I didn't know about because my family never had any. I received merit based scholarships for college, and I worked hard these 20 years with my husband supporting his business, and while eventually became part of the pathology of that relationship, it sure didnt seem to be that at the beginning. By all measures it was a partnership of sorts.

So now that I am 46 and not 25 (the age I married) and seeing what can happen, how one can find oneself at middle age with a school age child and no real job prospects, how many mental and spiritual resources I have put into ensuring the safety and well being of my child, to my husbands zero efforts so far, I ask myself: are women equal enough to men in practical terms that they can ever afford not to worry about the "what if"?

My answer would be hell no. I would advise ANY woman to never give up, for any significant amount of time, the things that are only made possible with having her own source of income. Yet I believe so much in the wonderful gift that is the chance to raise your own kid. And I suppose if one married someone very wealthy, and was savvy in ensuring that monies were allocated in a fair way while still married, that some protection could be afforded during divorce. But divorce for most real people seems to largely involve walking away with any protection.

I completely understand that we all don't have the same options. Many women will never even know what its like to not have to work a full-time job, yet is their situation really any more stable if it comes to divorce?

What do you moms tell your daughters about this? I will advise my daughter in very detailed ways about money, so she can at least know the things I was never taught but learned the hard way.