Keith Olbermann Is a Smug Elitist. But He Wasn’t Entirely Wrong About Penn State.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/24/keith_olbermann_suspended_from_espn_after_twitter_fight_over_penn_state.html

No very large school can be cliquyey. It is just impossible

More kids from our NoVa public seem to go to Penn State than to any other out-of-state public university.

Quite a few have a least one parent who went to Penn State and are loyal alumni. Others might have gotten into Virginia Tech if they didn't live in NoVa, but can't get in to Tech because Tech is trying to ensure geographic diversity and requires NoVa kids to have higher GPAs/test scores (not complaining, but it's obvious from the Naviance data for our school). Others get into places like Tech and/or JMU, but want a better-known school than JMU and a school with a more even male/female ratio than Virginia Tech.

My kid decided Penn State was too big and isolated for him, but my friends from this area who've done programs there (including an Indian-American women who did her graduate work there) say it's a big community with something for everyone.

Two facts about PSU cannot be denied: with all those alums who bleed blue, the school boasts an awesome network beyond Happy Valley and it enjoys a top (40?) ranking in USNWR.
For me, I'm from PA and was thrilled that PSU stayed off my kids' college lists.

My brother went to Penn State because he didn't know better. It is not a particularly serious academic environment. It is in a fairly crappy town in the middle of nowhere and made up of kids who think it is nirvana compared to Johnstown, Williamsport, or Clearfield, because they have not seen much else. It has some good programs and research academics, but the atmosphere is pretty third-rate compared to the top public universities Michigan, Wisconsin, UNC, UVA, or even Indiana or Maryland. It tends to be over-rated because it has a very active community of alumni boosters who look fondly on their time there after going back to their small towns in Pennsylvania. Not a great place for a sophisticated kid from a major urban area.

I went to a similar large state university and knew quite a few South Asians who got on just fine.

I was definitely into football - still am - and had my fair share of exposure to Greek life (frat parties, etc) but did not feel pressured to rush a sorority.

My brother went there, and also many of my good friends. We are Jewish, if that helps at all. My brother grew up in PA, but moved for HS. He didn't join a frat, but did enjoy the football games. He had a wide variety of friends, not all white or Jewish, at all. His major was especially diverse-- engineering. The thing about penn state is that it is HUGE. If you are looking for something, you will find it, and what the other people are doing wont matter.

I went, and I was not into football or Greek life. Never went to a game during my tenure. Only went to 2 frat parties and that was to see a band. There is a lot of drinking, but I had a mix of friends who were drinkers and friends who weren't. If your daughter is judgmental about other people drinking, she would be in for a hard time-if she's fine with other people drinking but doesn't partake she'll be ok. It might take a little more effort to find her group, but she will find it.

There's a pretty big contingent of Indians from the Philly suburbs (and a huge contingent of white kids from schools in the Philly suburbs who grew up with lots of South Asians and don't consider them unusual). Yes, there are small town kids there, but not everyone from a small town is racist or provincial.

I was in the honors college, which probably made a big difference in my experience (though I had many friends who were not). Not sure if your daughter would have the grades for that, but if she does, I'd encourage her to apply. It makes a huge school seem smaller and maybe improves the odds of finding a few like souls quickly. There was plenty of drinking and sex in the honors dorm-but also plenty of tolerance for people who choose a different path.

There are a lot of kids from Philly, Pittsburgh, New York, New Jersey and the DC area. None of my PSU friends came from a small town. That said, there are other schools more racially diverse.

It is a large school. Niches are everywhere.

I worked at PSU for a bit and had friends who went there (about 15 yrs ago now) and my feeling is -- it's a large, enthusiastic, involved student body IF you fit in. It's a place that draws a LOT of kids from the small towns in Central Pa. There are high schools that'll send 20-50 kids a yr to PSU, so those kids come to campus with their best friends bound and determined to make PSU the time of their lives before they move back to central Pa. Those are groups of kids that room with and hang with their HS group and maybe a few others from neighboring HSs, so they aren't necessarily looking to meet people in college.

Of course that's not everyone and for the rest -- a large majority find a home in Greek life; it makes the place smaller and more manageable for them and gives them an in to parties and drinking.

I'm sure there are people who meet their BFFs in drama club or finance club or the thousands of other organizations, but I always felt like people participated in those groups as a resume builder and to do an activity they liked but when it was time to tailgate on Sat morning -- they go with their frat brothers or their HS buddies.

For your DD, I don't think she'll find that people won't be nice to her -- she'll have friends in class and maybe around the dorm. But at the end of the day she'll be surrounded by kids who are coming from places with zero diversity. They'll be happy to talk to Shalini in economics (and pat themselves on the back with how open minded they've become since leaving Williamsport), but when Sat morning rolls around and it's time to tailgate -- chances are they're calling their HS girlfriends, not their friend from econ who is SOOOO different from their other friends (not that she is but they think so). And if at some point they do reach out and invite her to a party and she attends but doesn't drink or doesn't make out with the boys -- then that seals it for them that she is SOOOO different that they have nothing in common with "that Indian girl."

Frankly I'd avoid the place, or if your DD gets a huge merit scholarship -- go in with eyes wide open.

OP - your assessment is pretty accurate

Anonymous wrote:I cannot speak to the racial atmosphere at Penn State, but I understand from a few friends whose kids are there that the Greek life is VERY significant. Their kids have indicated that it can be very isolating if you don't belong to a fraternity or sorority. One friend's son did not get into the frat of his choice and is feeling very down about his social life. It's also a pretty big party school. I'm sure there are plenty of kids there that do not go Greek and that don't party, but I would advise you to look into numbers about the % of kids who go Greek as opposed to being social in other ways.

If I were you I would keep Penn State on your list, but also explore some other opportunities that may not have such a huge Greek life.

Good luck!

The Greek system is large there, but the total number of students who are in fraternities/sororities is very much the minority.

I cannot speak to the racial atmosphere at Penn State, but I understand from a few friends whose kids are there that the Greek life is VERY significant. Their kids have indicated that it can be very isolating if you don't belong to a fraternity or sorority. One friend's son did not get into the frat of his choice and is feeling very down about his social life. It's also a pretty big party school. I'm sure there are plenty of kids there that do not go Greek and that don't party, but I would advise you to look into numbers about the % of kids who go Greek as opposed to being social in other ways.

If I were you I would keep Penn State on your list, but also explore some other opportunities that may not have such a huge Greek life.

Good luck!

It has suddenly appeared on DD's list. I don't know much about it, but as I'm looking at the demographics -- it seems like it is largely composed of a Caucasian population from small towns in Pa. with a decent number of NJ and NY residents. It comes across like the kind of place where the "in" crowd is Greek and into football. Sure it's a school that offers something for everyone bc it's so huge, but I'm thinking it's easier to make friends if you're into tailgating for football than if you're one of the 10 people in drama club. Is that accurate?

DD is South Asian -- though culturally identifies with being American as she was born and raised here in NoVa; she's not someone who needs a group of Indian friends or Indian food or anything -- she's friends with everyone. However, she's always gone to schools where no one has cared about her background -- simply bc this area is so diverse. Is it similar at the larger state schools that draw from small towns or is she going to feel like more of a minority in that type of place simply bc she looks different? I don't really see her going Greek in college -- she might but says she's not at all interested. I also don't see her drinking -- again, she might but she is fairly religious and it's against our faith. Are these the kinds of things that'll set her apart too far at a place like PSU? I'd like for her to have a "normal" college experience -- not feel like kids are nice to her in class but don't want to hang out at night bc she's not one of them so now she has to resort to finding small group of Indians and hanging out with them whether she likes them or not simply bc they'll be accepting.