Anonymous wrote:These hyperdense developments are springing up everywhere you look and school capacity limits are being waved left and right. This is part of the master plan to "denisity" the county to facilitate greater use of public transport systems. In theory, most of the development should be happening around metro stations and more residents should offset the costs of school development, transport, etc. Of course the reality is different and dense development (apartments, townhouses, and condos) are springing up in everywhere you look regardless of public transport facilities, which county residents are increasingly packed into trailers and class sizes continue to grow.

Where else do you think that the county's population growth should go, and how else do you think that the county's population should get around?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don't buy the developers saying it won't add many kids.

They always say that and it is never true.
- B-CC cluster resident

Why didn't they restrict it to 55+ communities? That's generally what jurisdictions force developers to do when there is no school infrastructure to support the development.

Because the idea is to provide more housing near transit for everyone, not just people who are 55 or older.

I agree that something about the MCPS projection model is off, although I haven't looked at it in detail, so I don't know where it's going wrong.

I don't agree that MCPS should start spending money now to plan for the effects of development that may never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

I also don't buy the developers saying it won't add many kids.

They always say that and it is never true.
- B-CC cluster resident

Why didn't they restrict it to 55+ communities? That's generally what jurisdictions force developers to do when there is no school infrastructure to support the development.

I also don't buy the developers saying it won't add many kids.

They always say that and it is never true.
- B-CC cluster resident

Build houses now. Propose a pie in the sky solution for dealing with the impact later...

http://www.thesentinel.com/mont/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1558:leggett-makes-changes-to-fund-school-projects&Itemid=766

Leggett makes changes to fund school projects

"But the amendments are more of an aspiration than a reality, said Councilmember Craig Rice (D-2), head of the education committee. He said the council will get a better idea of realistic MCPS funding when Leggett sends the overall balanced budget to the council later this season.

“It is my assumption that the county executive is not going to be able to meet that full funding basically because we’re not going to be able to get that money from the state,” Rice said.

Rice said when the council receives the formal budget, they will then have to ask MCPS for a formal cut list of the order in which projects should be cut or delayed.

“They’re going to have to have some significant reductions,” he said.

As of October, MCPS had about 154,230 students enrolled, an increase of 16,485 students since 2007. MCPS also projects another 11,128 students enrolled by 2020 – growth that prompted Starr to describe the schools as “bursting at the seams.” "

This is the sorry situation that the rest of the county is currently experiencing (ex Potomac).

These hyperdense developments are springing up everywhere you look and school capacity limits are being waved left and right. This is part of the master plan to "denisity" the county to facilitate greater use of public transport systems. In theory, most of the development should be happening around metro stations and more residents should offset the costs of school development, transport, etc. Of course the reality is different and dense development (apartments, townhouses, and condos) are springing up in everywhere you look regardless of public transport facilities, which county residents are increasingly packed into trailers and class sizes continue to grow.

Proposed BRT systems (which would be inadequate to handle the new capacity) provide a justification to pack in more development. Schools are not being built, which roads and transit construction is at a standstill. Leggett's sole point of focus remains on funding the BRT systems so the dance can go on. In exchange for your declining quality of life, your taxes will soon be going up.

http://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2015/02/montgomery-county-exec-warns-significant-property-tax-hike-road/

http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2015/01/montgomery-county-executive-leggett-pulls-ita-proposal/

The developers are being disingenuous when they suggest that the units they're building are just for empty nesters or single people. Condos at Kenwood Place behind the current Giant are similarly set up, but there's a busload of kids (for Wood Acres) coming from just that development. If single-family homes zoned for Whitman are running $1M and up, why wouldn't young families live in 2 BR condos and townhouses at $500K or so, especially when the kids are small? As PP said, there isn't room for a single additional student at Wood Acres -- the school will still be overcrowded the moment it reopens in 18 months, and MCPS says the school cannot be expanded any further.

But it is not all the fault of the developers and the planning commission -- MCPS is sitting on its hands, and is not planning to do anything until additional children suddenly appear and want to go to school. Bruce Crispell has some vague idea that there would be some redistricting of students to nearby schools with capacity (like Bannockburn), plus additions at other schools, but we all know that redistricting and necessary facility expansion at other schools will take 7 or more years to accomplish, during which a few classes worth of kids will have started and completed elementary school in horrifically overcrowded conditions at Wood Acres, where kids already eat lunch in something like 6 shifts starting at 10:45 am (the expansion does not increase the capacity of the cafeteria, so I understand the lunch crunch will continue post-expansion). Redistricting is not something that will happen with a snap of the fingers, especially when the increase in students would be coming from Westbard, which straddles two clusters (BCC and Whitman), and both high schools are overcrowded already.

The planning commission and Equity One proposed moving Little Falls Library to the heart of the new development and setting aside the land for a new elementary school. But they stressed that MCPS said it didn't need any new space, and so in the newest plans, it appears that there is no plan to set aside that space any longer. The Little Falls site is not large enough for an elementary school under current MCPS guidelines, although under those guidelines, there is no site anywhere in the highly-developed Bethesda area that would fit the bill. I would think that if MCPS were serious about relieving overcrowding in this cluster, it would consider an exception and allow some creative thinking about how to build a suitable elementary school for that space. Lots of charters in DC manage to set up wonderful learning spaces in buildings with spare capacity, but it seems that MCPS is not looking for creative solutions for will inevitably happen in the Westbard area. And the fact that MCPS won't engage in the process with the planning commission and Equity One right now seems to leave money on the table. If future MCPS needs could be considered part of the redevelopment, some of the expense of setting aside land and getting it building-ready (or perhaps even the building itself) could be done by the developer...if I were a developer wanting to manage community opposition, I'd offer help with adding school capacity. But that would require MCPS cooperation and engagement, which is not happening. So now even the step of reserving land for future school development isn't going to happen.

Oh, and the new governor has no plans to let MCPS have additional money to deal with facility needs, so there's that too.

OP here. Very thoughtful replies, thanks.

I agree that shifting the families north of Goldsboro to Bannockburn would make geographic sense. By the same token, it seems that you could relieve the pressure on Pyle by sending children from the Wood Acres and Sumner neighborhoods to Westland, which is right next door to both. But then do they go to Whitman or to BCC for high school?

They could use Little Falls library space to make a new elementary school, that shared fields with Westland. Then the library moves into the new Westbard development similar to the library at Rockville Town Center. Wood Acres, even after the renovation, will already be at capacity and they have no more further space to expand.

The big wildcard is Pyle. Whitman can expand by taking over the Whittier Woods space and kicking out the tenants there (daycares and preschools mostly). Pyle has no such option. They're at the limits on physical space, and surround by houses so there's nowhere to go.

I also don't buy the developers saying it won't add many kids. First, a development of that size will be required to have MPDUs (lower-income housing) and those will be very popular with families who want to get into that school cluster.

I think this (school capacity) will be the sticking issue, especially since a rewrite of the master plan will be needed for some of the proposed developments.

Some of the projections say that the new developments will not have many children. The condos will be small and the townhouses expensive like the EYA ones on little falls pkwy so families are more likely to stick with single family homes at equivalent price points. Apparently there are only 2 kids in the EYA houses so far. The construction would likely take place over a 10-15 year period as well (a separate kind of hell) so it's not like it will be an instant thing. I am a little worried about impact on home values but I don't think we will end up getting redistricted.

Whitman already has an expansion plan in process-mostly in the Whittier woods space.

My guess is that the Westbard families will stay zoned Wood Acres, and the families north of Goldsboro Road currently zoned for Wood Acres will be shifted to Bannockburn (which is where those houses should be going to elem school anyway in my opinion). I just can't see the boundary lines being shifted i to a other high school cluster (which is what would happen if the new homes were zoned for Westbrook). However, Pyle and Whitman will still be insanely overcrowded.

The developer that bought the Westbard Giant shopping center and several surrounding parcels revealed plans last week to build 500 to 700 new housing units (condos and town houses) as part of a new mixed-use development - http://www.bethesdanow.com/2015/02/04/westbard-property-owner-reveals-first-plans-for-new-look-community/.

A big question is where all the children whose families move to the new development will go to school. Wood Acres elementary, which is nearby, already has 800 kids and its students and teachers recently moved to a "holding" school off Goldsboro while MCPS adds 8 classrooms to Wood Acres over the next 18 months. Are we really going to expect Wood Acres to educate 1,000 + students in one elementary school?

If not there, then where? Westbrook, which also is close by, just finished an addition, and it doesn't have a lot of unused capacity. Somerset Elementary isn't far -- and also isn't hurting for students. There is talk of building a new elementary school, but the site they're talking about -- where the Little Falls library is on Massachusetts Ave -- is generally considered too small. And even if a new school is built, where are the children going to go to high school? (Westland Middle should have room after the new middle school opens in Kensington, but Whitman and BCC high schools are already pretty full.)

I'm under no illusion that the lack of space in the local public schools will stall the redevelopment of Westbard. Progress will not be denied.

So it seems that some kind of (potentially) significant redrawing of school attendance boundaries in Bethesda is coming -- certainly at the elementary school level, and potentially at the middle and high school levels, too.

It's impossible to know what will happen at this stage, but any guesses as to how this will all shake out?