the original statement was about islam spreading without considering emigration or birthrate. the graphic above is interesting. No need to question pp.'s motives or integrity

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it is as rare as you think that people converting to another relegation. Look at the map where Islam currently spreading that include large area of Europe and US. So place of birth is not that relevant, especially in this days of global mobility.

Islam is spreading outside of traditionally muslim countries because of emigration, not religious conversion.

And high birth numbers.

wrong. African American Muslims make up a large portion of American Muslims. Do you still consider slave descendants emigrants?
Islamic birth rates are declining or stagnating. Why do you post when you don't know what the truth is?

Anonymous wrote:Interesting post, OP.

I am also a Christian, probably not as liberal in thought as you say you are.

I completely agree that many people's adult religion is an accident of/ result of their birth. In fact, just about everything in the way our lives play out is a result of our births -- the location, the timing, etc. Someone born on the Upper East Side of Manhattan in 2015 is going to have a completely different point of view as an adult, based on that fact alone, than some born in rural India in 1965.

And, partially for that reason, of course there should be tolerance of all faiths, assuming that they are not out to kill us all, e.g. radical Islamists. However, tolerance for another person's beliefs does not mean that I have to agree that it is "right" or even "OK." I can still tolerate and live with what this person says, but sincerely believe that they are "wrong" in their faith.

OP here: I am fine with what you state above.

I take a slightly different view in that I believe that the faith I follow is A path to God - as opposed to THE path. It is certainly the path for me but as I stated in my OP, it is because I was brought up as a Christian that has influenced my belief system - what I referred to as an accident of birth. If my parents were Muslim or Hindu or some other faith, I think it is more than likely that I would have believed my parents faith to be my path to God.

However, I don't knock anyone else for believing that their path is the only path for themselves as long as they don't try and coerce others into their faith. Of course, depending on how rigidly they hold on to that point of view, there is a risk that they could be intolerant of others and the faith they follow with all of the attendant ramifications.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it is as rare as you think that people converting to another relegation. Look at the map where Islam currently spreading that include large area of Europe and US. So place of birth is not that relevant, especially in this days of global mobility.

Islam is spreading outside of traditionally muslim countries because of emigration, not religious conversion.

And high birth numbers.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it is as rare as you think that people converting to another relegation. Look at the map where Islam currently spreading that include large area of Europe and US. So place of birth is not that relevant, especially in this days of global mobility.

Islam is spreading outside of traditionally muslim countries because of emigration, not religious conversion.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood why people who believe in God believe in Him in this way: That He has no real nature and reveals Himself as a schizophrenic God who tells different people different things all over the world. If you believe in a great God who made Heaven and Earth and all that is in it, how do you also suppose that He doesn't have a knowable nature and wouldn't take steps to reveal that true nature to us? And why do so many people presume that He doesn't care how He is acknowledged, thought of and worshipped?

I am a middle-aged male named David with no kids who likes being outdoors, reading and a good steak. If you said you were my friend and insisted on calling me Steve, invited me to your basement to watch child-rearing videos, bought me a dress for Christmas, and asked me out for tofu, I would say you probably don't really know me.

Why does that not also work for God?

I don't believe that/

I should have clarified. Not everyone believe this way, yes. But many people, such as the OP, seem to, and this I don't understand.

I agree OP. Which is why I absolutely don't agree with proselytizing one's religion or arguing with a person of another faith about who's way is the 'right way' or the 'true way'.

If everyone could just learn to accept others and their differences in belief the world would be a much more peaceful place. But there will always be those that think that other's are doomed or 'against' their god if they don't concede to their way of life. The lost souls, the infidels, the godless, the damned- all names that some religions call those of other religions. It makes me very sad.

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood why people who believe in God believe in Him in this way: That He has no real nature and reveals Himself as a schizophrenic God who tells different people different things all over the world. If you believe in a great God who made Heaven and Earth and all that is in it, how do you also suppose that He doesn't have a knowable nature and wouldn't take steps to reveal that true nature to us? And why do so many people presume that He doesn't care how He is acknowledged, thought of and worshipped?

I am a middle-aged male named David with no kids who likes being outdoors, reading and a good steak. If you said you were my friend and insisted on calling me Steve, invited me to your basement to watch child-rearing videos, bought me a dress for Christmas, and asked me out for tofu, I would say you probably don't really know me.

Why does that not also work for God?

I don't believe that/

I don't think it is as rare as you think that people converting to another relegation. Look at the map where Islam currently spreading that include large area of Europe and US. So place of birth is not that relevant, especially in this days of global mobility.

I've never understood why people who believe in God believe in Him in this way: That He has no real nature and reveals Himself as a schizophrenic God who tells different people different things all over the world. If you believe in a great God who made Heaven and Earth and all that is in it, how do you also suppose that He doesn't have a knowable nature and wouldn't take steps to reveal that true nature to us? And why do so many people presume that He doesn't care how He is acknowledged, thought of and worshipped?

I am a middle-aged male named David with no kids who likes being outdoors, reading and a good steak. If you said you were my friend and insisted on calling me Steve, invited me to your basement to watch child-rearing videos, bought me a dress for Christmas, and asked me out for tofu, I would say you probably don't really know me.

Why does that not also work for God?

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely.
And I also like to think that God has entered the lives of people of varying cultures in a variety of ways, thus the differences in religion. I like to think they are all "right" as long as they are not hateful. I believe that God is loving, but hands off most of the time.

Loving, but hands off? Is that the way human relationships work?

I think most religious people are actually very tolerant of other faiths. In my experience, I have found that fanatics and less religious people were the more intolerant towards people of other faiths. As for people changing religion,according to this Pew article, about half of Americans have changed religious affiliations at least once in their lifetime but the statistics do agree with you that most of those changes are within the same faith . http://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/27/faith-in-flux/

Interesting post, OP.

I am also a Christian, probably not as liberal in thought as you say you are.

I completely agree that many people's adult religion is an accident of/ result of their birth. In fact, just about everything in the way our lives play out is a result of our births -- the location, the timing, etc. Someone born on the Upper East Side of Manhattan in 2015 is going to have a completely different point of view as an adult, based on that fact alone, than some born in rural India in 1965.

And, partially for that reason, of course there should be tolerance of all faiths, assuming that they are not out to kill us all, e.g. radical Islamists. However, tolerance for another person's beliefs does not mean that I have to agree that it is "right" or even "OK." I can still tolerate and live with what this person says, but sincerely believe that they are "wrong" in their faith.

Absolutely.
And I also like to think that God has entered the lives of people of varying cultures in a variety of ways, thus the differences in religion. I like to think they are all "right" as long as they are not hateful. I believe that God is loving, but hands off most of the time.

I am one of the liberal Christians who has posted previously.

One of the things I don't question is what fate awaits anyone of another faith - or for that matter no faith. I am happy to leave that decision to God as and when the time comes.

In discussions with other Christians as well as those of other faiths - Muslims, Hindus and Jews - I sometimes tell them that the faith that most people end up following as an adult is really an accident of birth. Those born into a specific faith invariably follow that faith into adulthood - assuming that they continue to believe in God. It is relatively rare for people brought up in one particular faith to convert to something completely different. Sure among Christians people may switch to another denomination but the basic tenets of the Christian faith as followed by most denominations is essentially the same.

It is one of the reasons I am not able to comprehend the lack of tolerance that people of one faith have for those belonging to another faith.

Do others share my viewpoint?