"I went in grieving deeply and came out wishing I could clear my head of the hateful rants of a very angry man. And so glad we're not raising our kids religiously."

You do realize most Christian churches do not operate this way?

I'm glad we are raising our kids with Christianity, certainly not this misrepresentation of it. Do what you want in your own home, but don't paint religion with such a broad brush.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.

I personally think it's childish to hold some imaginary eternal punishment over someone's head, telling them that they will burn in hell for eternity even if they didn't do anything wrong, because of an act that their great great great great grand-daddy and grandmamma committed, UNLESS they accept Jesus and live their lives in a fashion exactly as prescribed by the church. Religion treats us like children.

OP here. We attended the funeral of a dear friend of mine at one of the mega-churches in the area a year ago. I have to say I was shocked at how cold and threatening-sounding the sermon turned out to be. The preacher brandished a little crucifix he had brought back from a foreign mission and went on and on about how we were awash in sin, how the only way to gain access to heaven was to accept Christ in your heart and how you couldn't freeload on the grace of others. He said little about my friend other than that she was a true believer, and nothing about any of the central, most beautiful messages in the Bible about love, acceptance, forgiveness.
I went in grieving deeply and came out wishing I could clear my head of the hateful rants of a very angry man. And so glad we're not raising our kids religiously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.

I personally think it's childish to hold some imaginary eternal punishment over someone's head, telling them that they will burn in hell for eternity even if they didn't do anything wrong, because of an act that their great great great great grand-daddy and grandmamma committed, UNLESS they accept Jesus and live their lives in a fashion exactly as prescribed by the church. Religion treats us like children.

Anonymous wrote:"The Golden Rule" is not that golden if you think about it. How can you be sure you'd like to be treated the same way I'd like to be treated?

It works most of the time, and the mistakes are generally not large ones unless you happen to be a person who enjoys suffering. I don't think anyone gets confused and buys their husband a dress, but if that did happen I suppose it is better than not getting a present at all.

At its heart, the golden rule promotes fairness and cooperation. Those are the two key elements that make social groups more powerful than individuals. Game theory demonstrates why this is theoretically advantageous, and the results can be seen in both the animal kingdom and among humans. Cooperation is the strategic advantage, and fairness is the incentive to cooperate.

This is a fascinating op ed. I wouldn't have stumbled onto it in the la times without OP. Thanks, dcum!

"The Golden Rule" is not that golden if you think about it. How can you be sure you'd like to be treated the same way I'd like to be treated?

The golden rule is ok, I'm not against it. But there is a transactional quality to treat someone as u want to be treated. Jesus more powerful lesson was turn the other cheek. Act ethically, even though u may not be treated well for it xoxo

Maybe God is in you is the same as there is a God.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

Actually it's Mt 7:12 Luke 6:31 and Jesussaid it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

This is actually a great article. I was raised without religion myself while DH was raised strictly Roman Catholic. We have bickered about how we want to raise our future children (none yet) despite him having left the church quite awhile ago now and I am definitely showing him this article.

Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

Yawn...

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html

Come over to the dark side, folks--we have cookies.
And apparently we now also have values. Came as a total surprise to me.