Anonymous wrote:If heaven was not attached religion would still be attractive in the sense that the holy sprit still guides me and lives in my heart.

Do you think heaven exists?

Anonymous wrote:I'm an Episcopalian and (currently) my religion helps me get through life day to day. The afterlife has never been a big motivator for me.

do you think there is an afterlife?

I'm an Episcopalian and (currently) my religion helps me get through life day to day. The afterlife has never been a big motivator for me.

If heaven was not attached religion would still be attractive in the sense that the holy sprit still guides me and lives in my heart.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . .

This is an example of sad misunderstanding of a religion (including atheism). Very typical among young Americans, and very distructive.

How is this destructive?

I own that line, btw.

The most selfless folks are those who do good on this earth w/o relying on "payment" in the afterlife.

How can you argue against that? or even call it "destructive?"

fear-based way of controlling the masses

I'm definitely not young either.

You can just as easily say that people who do things to feel good about themselves or for recognition by others (those who donate time or money not anonymously) are selfish as well. Hoping to get rewarded in the afterlife is no more selfish that wanting to feel good in the current life.

American Indians believed in afterlife. Somehow I bet the OP doesn't have an issue with their religion.

Well, ancient Greeks and Romans believed in all sorts of gods, and they did believe in an afterlife, but unless you were a hero (a serious hero, not just a good person) the afterlife was sort of a hell.

So based on that, I'd say that the concept of "heaven" (which I think is the subcategory of afterlife) is not necessary to religion.

You're suggestion that all good works by atheists are altruistic is simplistic and ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . .

This is an example of sad misunderstanding of a religion (including atheism). Very typical among young Americans, and very distructive.

How is this destructive?

I own that line, btw.

The most selfless folks are those who do good on this earth w/o relying on "payment" in the afterlife.

How can you argue against that? or even call it "destructive?"

fear-based way of controlling the masses

I'm definitely not young either.

I wouldn't say doing good on earth and believing in an afterlife are mutually exclusive. You could accuse a religious person in doing good just to get into heaven or whatever the belief system may be, but why not assume they are doing good to do good? Shouldn't we all have more faith in one another?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . .

This is an example of sad misunderstanding of a religion (including atheism). Very typical among young Americans, and very distructive.

How is this destructive?

I own that line, btw.

The most selfless folks are those who do good on this earth w/o relying on "payment" in the afterlife.

How can you argue against that? or even call it "destructive?"

fear-based way of controlling the masses

I'm definitely not young either.

Anonymous wrote:
not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . .

This is an example of sad misunderstanding of a religion (including atheism). Very typical among young Americans, and very distructive.

OP, the Heaven and Hell are here on Earth. It's what you make of your life. So yes, some religions are still very attractive in the most practical terms.

Jews dont really believe in heaven and hell and even though there is discussion and theories of the world to come (which is generally good and not bad), very few religious/observant Jews act in the current world for that purpose.

Judaism is all about the present world and doing your best here.

The thought of an after life has compelled religions and societies for centuries - the aztecs, egyptians - so it's not a new concept.

Afterall, it's human nature to want to seek eternal happiness. Who doesn't want that? The debate is how we find it? What do we do about it? The here and now.

Starting a new thread from a question asked on the "why believe in God" thread.

2 responses so far:

not attractive at all. That's why religion is selfish. It's all about being temporarily good in order to secure a spot in the afterlife. that's all . . . Who's kinder? the atheist who volunteers at homeless shelters or the Catholic who's tithing $100/week each Sunday b/c his kids attend the local parish school and he's drummed up some business after mass?
I think we all know the answer to THAT question.

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Some religious people are selfish, some give unstintingly of themselves. The same is true of atheists. Try to accept and understand that others may not see the world as you do, but may nevertheless be admirable