Unfortunately, aside from liberal arts majors, Ed is the easiest pathway to a degree. This is followed up by a union gig. How many top 20-50% students in your graduation class went on to teach?

Anonymous wrote:Because teachers unions are against pay and job security based on performance (results). In the real world, we get fired if we don't deliver.

Teachers deal more with the real world than you'd ever know. It's funny that you think your office/cube has anything to do with the real world.

Grade point average in high school,
SAT scores,
relative difficulty of classes taken in undergrad,
graduate programs,
publications,
performance objectives and reviews on the job....
you know, the parameters by which msot professionals are measured -- aside from a few outliers, where do teachers generally rank?

Anonymous wrote:I'm reading "the Smartest Kids in the World," which looks at the school systems in Korea, Poland, and Finland. It made an interesting point about educational standards to become a teacher. Here, almost anyone can get into the education program at a college. And many colleges graduate 3-4x the number of new teachers than are actually needed in the state. In Finland, getting into an education program in college is extremely competitive, like med school, and therefore teachers are held in higher respect.

And they're treated as such. Yes teaching needs to be a more respected profession and needs to attract more top-tier college graduates. On the other hand, the education "reformers" in America tend to be disingenuous - they may point to Finland, but then they call for less professional autonomy and the "proletarianization" of teaching.

Tt's very easy to get into education as a career. No specific SAT requirements, OK to say "I am a horrible speller, can't understand math and don't speak any foreign language".
This said, there are smart teachers who got into the profession bt default.

I don't look down on teachers generally, with my fancy pants degree and all.

I do have very specific negative things to say about a few of my son's teachers this year. It isn't because I have a PhD. It is because they are not acting like professionals. I also have some very specific positive things to say about some of my son's teachers, and that isn't because of my PhD, either.

I have the same credentials they do (I used to be a teacher) and I expect a certain degree of professionalism.

I'm reading "the Smartest Kids in the World," which looks at the school systems in Korea, Poland, and Finland. It made an interesting point about educational standards to become a teacher. Here, almost anyone can get into the education program at a college. And many colleges graduate 3-4x the number of new teachers than are actually needed in the state. In Finland, getting into an education program in college is extremely competitive, like med school, and therefore teachers are held in higher respect.

Anonymous wrote:Because teachers unions are against pay and job security based on performance (results). In the real world, we get fired if we don't deliver.

Out of curiosity do you consider CEOs part of the "real world"?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/06/16/the-highest-paid-ceos-are-the-worst-performers-new-study-says/

Because rich people are a$$holes.

Because teachers unions are against pay and job security based on performance (results). In the real world, we get fired if we don't deliver.

Unfortunately, some people equate someone's paycheck with their worth to society, when it should be judged on what difference they are making. Does a teacher make a bigger difference, or does someone who earns a bunch of money to spend on luxury goods?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the issue is that most teachers are in public schools. Public sector employees in general aren't held in the highest regard. Another issue is that, while there are some fabulous teachers who could hold their own with any professional, the bar to become of teacher is pretty low. Education majors are a dime a dozen. Compare this to folks graduating with a JD, MD or Phd and you get the idea.

JDs and PhDs are a dime a dozen these days, too. And there are way too many MDs in some specialties.

Yes, JD and PhDs are hardly rare. The bar is higher for admission to a PhD program or law school. You can teach with just a bachelor's degree, and you don't need to attend anything better than a very average college to become a teacher. Not saying all teachers are average -- just that the price of admission to teaching is pretty low.

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the issue is that most teachers are in public schools. Public sector employees in general aren't held in the highest regard. Another issue is that, while there are some fabulous teachers who could hold their own with any professional, the bar to become of teacher is pretty low. Education majors are a dime a dozen. Compare this to folks graduating with a JD, MD or Phd and you get the idea.

JDs and PhDs are a dime a dozen these days, too. And there are way too many MDs in some specialties.

I think part of the issue is that most teachers are in public schools. Public sector employees in general aren't held in the highest regard. Another issue is that, while there are some fabulous teachers who could hold their own with any professional, the bar to become of teacher is pretty low. Education majors are a dime a dozen. Compare this to folks graduating with a JD, MD or Phd and you get the idea.

I've noticed this among the upper middle class types who gloat about their credentials and say they "believe in education" - yet they don't revere teaching as a career. It's not something to be mentioned in the same breath as lawyers, MDs and MBAs - and certainly not something they'll boast about their own children doing. They see teachers as people who couldn't cut it in the "real world" and don't respect teachers as professionals - even upper middle class liberals seem to buy into the charter school hype. Let's replace experienced teachers with 23-year-old Harvard grads who did it as a "public service" stint before going onto law school or Wall Street.

This article in the Washington Post, although 2 years old, is bang-on:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/why-people-look-down-on-teachers/2012/09/14/0347c52a-fddf-11e1-a31e-804fccb658f9_blog.html