Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:21 how does your acceptance of the fact that police procedures sometimes wind up killing the person they are there to help tie in with knowing something about mental illness? Your post is unclear.

The original post is pointless and stupid. Is that clear enough for you?

Last time I checked, Jeff was the moderator of this board, not you.

OP again. Thank you for posting the NAMI info. My DC is on the Autism spectrum and we also worry about possible noncompliance with authority, which could lead to an escalated incident, due to not cooperating with authority as NT's do, panic and anxiety causing fight or flight, processing issues, delayed responding, difficulty changing gears or stopping behaviors on command, etc. etc. This issue is as relevant for parents of kids with ASD or behavior issues as it is for parents of kids with mental illness. And of course they can go hand in hand, especially as kids get older.

If there is time, an alternative to calling the police is to call the NAMI Access Helpline. I have no personal experience with this, but they say it is 24/7 staffed with mental health professionals who can activate mobile crisis teams. NAMI is also active in police training programs.

http://www.namidc.org/CommunityResources.aspx

Thank you for posting, OP. I have a MI family member, and I worry about one day having to call the police and something going tragically wrong. It can happen whether or not the MI person is or has a history of violence. Aside from violence, serious depression can also be a factor in these types of incidents, so much so that family members often call these incidents "suicide by cop," i.e. the depressed person consciously or sub-conciously knows that a threatening move on their part will result in their killing.

Unfortunately, generally speaking, police officers are not trained in how to deal with the mentally ill, how to speak with the MI, interpret their behaviors and de-escalate the situation. Sadly, this can result in injury to the MI person, a bystander or the police themselves. That's why I support increases in training about mental illness for police officers and the judiciary, as well as increases in "crisis intervention teams" within the police force.

As the parent of a SN kid without MI, I also think about the way in which my kid may respond to police interaction in a way that could easily be mistaken for insubordination or non-cooperation. The WaPo article a few days ago about an autistic male teen caught up in the justice system was frightening to me. Even though the incident didn't result in immediate confrontation and death like the story you posted, IMO, it is yet another example of the police forces' limited understanding of mental issues (whether SN or MI) which can often cause injustice.

I don't know if it's always last resort. Sometimes it's the only way to get a person who refuses care committed, and usually people with mental illness are not violent. We had a psychologist tell us to call police when our DC was in a bad period and grabbing knives when escalated. This was advised to scare our DC straight. Knowing what can happen, and knowing our DC could escalate when scared or severely anxious, we just laughed and said no way. My husband's colleague's son was bipolar and the cops killed him when called to help. A close relative needed to be committed. She was nonviolent but neglecting herself and was psychotic. They sent a really tall rookie cop who was visibly nervous and hand-cuffed her, a middle aged nonviolent woman, just for saying she was going to sue. It was a confrontational and horribly traumatic way to get treatment, but thank goodness nothing worse happened. so no people don't call police only when it is a last resort. And most people have no idea their loved one could end up dead.

Anonymous wrote:This can happen even when someone is not violent, just out of control. When someone arrives to "help" without proper training they can escalate the situation to violence. The woman in the article had not been previously violent. Of course there are times when it's necessary to call police, but if it's calling police to get a person committed, this needs to be thought through and planned instead of naively putting a loved one's life in the hands of people who don't necessarily know what they're doing and are often fearful themselves and reactive (police). Instead of helping the person they can end up dead.

I generally agree with this poster. Typically people who are calling the police due to a mentally ill relative are doing it because that person is violent and family members fear for the persons safety or their own. It is a way to set up a documented history of violence and/or suicide. For most people this is getting into last resort territory, where they have no other options.

This can happen even when someone is not violent, just out of control. When someone arrives to "help" without proper training they can escalate the situation to violence. The woman in the article had not been previously violent. Of course there are times when it's necessary to call police, but if it's calling police to get a person committed, this needs to be thought through and planned instead of naively putting a loved one's life in the hands of people who don't necessarily know what they're doing and are often fearful themselves and reactive (police). Instead of helping the person they can end up dead.

I don't have time to read the article, but OP, you do know that only a small subset of people who are mentally ill are violent right? Well guess, what, a subset of those who are violent will and do injure and even kill family members. There are countless stories in the news. If someone is violent with a weapon of any sort and they don't surrender it to the police this is a consequence. An argument could be made that EVERY person who is violent in any way has a mental illness.

Many people have no idea that this happens.

Anonymous wrote:18:21 how does your acceptance of the fact that police procedures sometimes wind up killing the person they are there to help tie in with knowing something about mental illness? Your post is unclear.

The original post is pointless and stupid. Is that clear enough for you?

18:21 how does your acceptance of the fact that police procedures sometimes wind up killing the person they are there to help tie in with knowing something about mental illness? Your post is unclear.

This is not a new thing, OP. Cops kill people who are brandishing knives even if they are suicidal. Teenagers have been killed this way. It's procedural not personal. This is a stupid cautionary tale that you've posted.

People call the cops to resolve domestic disputes and cops get killed, e.g,: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/us/05pittsburgh.html?_r=0

So cops follow procedure for a reason. Stay off the SN board, you obviously know zip about mental illness.

There was some debate about this topic on a different post in recent months. Here is an example of the tragedy that can occur when family call on law enforcement to help a mentally ill family member, thinking they can take them to a hospital for help. Hopefully most of the time it turns out OK, but I have heard many many stories like this one. Hopefully won't happen to anyone in this area (or anywhere again) but some of us have kids who have or had the potential to be out of control so I think it's good to be aware of the worst that can happen and find ways to guard against risk on the off off chance that law enforcement or first responders needs to be called.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/12/us/cnn-guns-project/the-dead.html?hpt=hp_c2