PP here who has been harping about consent.

Unrelated, do women actually like this "draw her a bubble bath" business? Do they find it erotic? I like bubble baths, but honestly, if my husband wanted to have sex, running me a bath is not the way to make that happen. If my husband wanted to be nice to me, he would draw be a bubble bath, pour me a glass of champagne, hand me some trashy new novel and then take DD to a park for a couple hours.

Anonymous wrote:
"Wanna do it?"
Seriously? THAT's your line? No, not going to make her weak in the knees anytime soon.

Don't believe in this "women want a caveman claptrap". Some women do, but plenty of others get turned on by being spoiled and doted on. Try drawing her a bubble bath, giving her a massage (and dont make it obvious that you are trying to get laid- that makes you seem desperate and conniving.) Make her feel like you truly value her and care for her. To be frank, if you are truly in touch with your wife's emotions then you should have no problem reading her emotions and knowing when she wants you to grab her face and kiss her. Women give off very obvious symbols.... or just ask her! Have the discussion! She might give you certain constraints, such as "yes but not in public" or "yes but not when I'm doing chores". Don't get offended or butthurt about this, just listen and do your best to accommodate her. It's your job to figure out your woman's preferences.

Couple of thoughts in response to that:

"Wanna do it?" - while lame is "just asking her."

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the signals given are obvious and that a loving husband will just know and have no trouble reading her emotions. That's why I asked if the women around here give those signals and, if so, what they are.

I can honestly say I DO NOT LIKE MORNING BREAKFAST SAUSAGE BEFORE I WAKE UP !!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sure, I'll accept any negative to my overtures as a sign to cease and desist. I'm very cautious about being pushy about sex -- I want her to want me. But I think, to some degree, this plays into the not uncommon complaint from women that men these days "aren't real men."

My question is whether it's common for women to regard this sort of cautiousness about her desire for sex as unattractive passiveness or tentativeness. And, also -- if they like guys who come on strong -- whether they give out signals when they want a guy to come on strong.

I would imagine that the signal you'd give for liking when someone comes on strong is to respond positively when someone comes on strong. My husband, for example, will grab me and kiss me as described in the other thread and he knows that I like that. He also knows that I am less likely to be immediately responsive if he does that while I am, for example, cooking dinner or working or sick or if we're in front of his parents or whatever.

If the only way you can think to express desire is to be sexually aggressive, you need to work on your technique. My husband, who I mentioned before is fairly dominant, was NOT like that with me early on. He was passionate and I definitely knew that he wanted me, but in the beginning, our sex life was pretty vanilla.

I'm not sexually aggressive. All too often, my go to move is to ask my wife, "wanna do it?" Very little chance of miscommunication there. Also - very little chance of making her weak in the knees.

But, my question was less about how to make my sex life better, and more of a general question about whether women wish their men would be more assertive and aggressive.

"Wanna do it?"
Seriously? THAT's your line? No, not going to make her weak in the knees anytime soon.

Don't believe in this "women want a caveman claptrap". Some women do, but plenty of others get turned on by being spoiled and doted on. Try drawing her a bubble bath, giving her a massage (and dont make it obvious that you are trying to get laid- that makes you seem desperate and conniving.) Make her feel like you truly value her and care for her. To be frank, if you are truly in touch with your wife's emotions then you should have no problem reading her emotions and knowing when she wants you to grab her face and kiss her. Women give off very obvious symbols.... or just ask her! Have the discussion! She might give you certain constraints, such as "yes but not in public" or "yes but not when I'm doing chores". Don't get offended or butthurt about this, just listen and do your best to accommodate her. It's your job to figure out your woman's preferences.

In all honesty, I would prefer someone to obtain consent before kissing me. It makes me feel safe. After that, we can discuss my preferences, I.e. whether I'm okay with someone grabbing my face to kiss me. That seems to clear up any issues of consent, and to let me know that he values my comfort and feelings of safety. Additionally, I would hope that after we have discussed my preferences, he would have the social skills to be able to read my emotions and know when such a gesture is appropriate and when it is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sure, I'll accept any negative to my overtures as a sign to cease and desist. I'm very cautious about being pushy about sex -- I want her to want me. But I think, to some degree, this plays into the not uncommon complaint from women that men these days "aren't real men."

My question is whether it's common for women to regard this sort of cautiousness about her desire for sex as unattractive passiveness or tentativeness. And, also -- if they like guys who come on strong -- whether they give out signals when they want a guy to come on strong.

I would imagine that the signal you'd give for liking when someone comes on strong is to respond positively when someone comes on strong. My husband, for example, will grab me and kiss me as described in the other thread and he knows that I like that. He also knows that I am less likely to be immediately responsive if he does that while I am, for example, cooking dinner or working or sick or if we're in front of his parents or whatever.

If the only way you can think to express desire is to be sexually aggressive, you need to work on your technique. My husband, who I mentioned before is fairly dominant, was NOT like that with me early on. He was passionate and I definitely knew that he wanted me, but in the beginning, our sex life was pretty vanilla.

I'm not sexually aggressive. All too often, my go to move is to ask my wife, "wanna do it?" Very little chance of miscommunication there. Also - very little chance of making her weak in the knees.

But, my question was less about how to make my sex life better, and more of a general question about whether women wish their men would be more assertive and aggressive.

Women completely destroyed the word "creep" by casually using to describe any guy they don't find attractive.

There is a difference between a harmful deviant and a guy you dont find attractive but respectfully approached you. The latter is not a creep.

In 50 years, people are just going to procreate artificially via contracts and itch their sexual nature via professional sex workers where everything is filmed.

That's the way the legal framework is leading us.

Anonymous wrote:Well, sure, I'll accept any negative to my overtures as a sign to cease and desist. I'm very cautious about being pushy about sex -- I want her to want me. But I think, to some degree, this plays into the not uncommon complaint from women that men these days "aren't real men."

My question is whether it's common for women to regard this sort of cautiousness about her desire for sex as unattractive passiveness or tentativeness. And, also -- if they like guys who come on strong -- whether they give out signals when they want a guy to come on strong.

I would imagine that the signal you'd give for liking when someone comes on strong is to respond positively when someone comes on strong. My husband, for example, will grab me and kiss me as described in the other thread and he knows that I like that. He also knows that I am less likely to be immediately responsive if he does that while I am, for example, cooking dinner or working or sick or if we're in front of his parents or whatever.

If the only way you can think to express desire is to be sexually aggressive, you need to work on your technique. My husband, who I mentioned before is fairly dominant, was NOT like that with me early on. He was passionate and I definitely knew that he wanted me, but in the beginning, our sex life was pretty vanilla.

Well, sure, I'll accept any negative to my overtures as a sign to cease and desist. I'm very cautious about being pushy about sex -- I want her to want me. But I think, to some degree, this plays into the not uncommon complaint from women that men these days "aren't real men."

My question is whether it's common for women to regard this sort of cautiousness about her desire for sex as unattractive passiveness or tentativeness. And, also -- if they like guys who come on strong -- whether they give out signals when they want a guy to come on strong.

PP here again.

Consent is encouragement, rather than the lack of an explicit no. If your partner is not an enthusiastic participant, discontinue sexual advances or do not be surprised when you discover that she believes you to be a rapist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have had many conversations over the years about what we want sexually. We check in about the dynamics of our sex life often. Not in a "ruining the effect" sort of way, but in a "continuing to establish that what we have works for us" sort of way.

He is more dominant than I am and he knows that I like that. I know that sometimes he wants me to take the lead. If I want him to be dominant, I tell him, in ways that are fairly explicit and are therefore inappropriate for this forum.

A good rule of thumb is that if you are new to a sexual relationship, do not do things that can be construed as sexually aggressive, period. Even if you think that your partner is into that. And stop using phrases like "soft no". If a sex partner says they do not want to do a thing, don't do that thing until they want to do it, period. Don't try harder. It is, as was suggested in the other thread, "rapey" to try harder after your partner has already said no.

Well, by "soft no," I mean something that isn't encouragement but isn't an explicit no. In the context of a marriage, maybe the husband starts kissing on wife and she says something like, "but we're so busy" or "what if the kids hear" or "but I'm tired" or "I haven't showered" or "I feel bloated."

Yes. All of which are indications that she does not want to have sex at that moment. Which would be an indication to stop trying to initiate sex. It's really not complicated at all. Unless you have a prior agreement about this sort of thing, as well as a safe word to indicate when no REALLY means no for your partner, please accept any version of "no" - whether that's "we're busy/the kids are right down the hall/i'm tired/i feel gross/etc." - as the real deal.

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have had many conversations over the years about what we want sexually. We check in about the dynamics of our sex life often. Not in a "ruining the effect" sort of way, but in a "continuing to establish that what we have works for us" sort of way.

He is more dominant than I am and he knows that I like that. I know that sometimes he wants me to take the lead. If I want him to be dominant, I tell him, in ways that are fairly explicit and are therefore inappropriate for this forum.

A good rule of thumb is that if you are new to a sexual relationship, do not do things that can be construed as sexually aggressive, period. Even if you think that your partner is into that. And stop using phrases like "soft no". If a sex partner says they do not want to do a thing, don't do that thing until they want to do it, period. Don't try harder. It is, as was suggested in the other thread, "rapey" to try harder after your partner has already said no.

Well, by "soft no," I mean something that isn't encouragement but isn't an explicit no. In the context of a marriage, maybe the husband starts kissing on wife and she says something like, "but we're so busy" or "what if the kids hear" or "but I'm tired" or "I haven't showered" or "I feel bloated."

My husband and I have had many conversations over the years about what we want sexually. We check in about the dynamics of our sex life often. Not in a "ruining the effect" sort of way, but in a "continuing to establish that what we have works for us" sort of way.

He is more dominant than I am and he knows that I like that. I know that sometimes he wants me to take the lead. If I want him to be dominant, I tell him, in ways that are fairly explicit and are therefore inappropriate for this forum.

A good rule of thumb is that if you are new to a sexual relationship, do not do things that can be construed as sexually aggressive, period. Even if you think that your partner is into that. And stop using phrases like "soft no". If a sex partner says they do not want to do a thing, don't do that thing until they want to do it, period. Don't try harder. It is, as was suggested in the other thread, "rapey" to try harder after your partner has already said no.

Inspired by the "I wish he'd grab my face and kiss me" thread. A lot of women want guys to be assertive and aggressive sexually. A lot of them don't want to have to tell the guy to be this way because it ruins the effect if they have to say something. The guy should just want them so much, he just has to have her.

However, it has to be the right guy doing this. A creep being assertive and aggressive is beyond awful. Rapists have also poisoned the water. They work on the edges of plausible deniability, and take advantage of women's more passive role in the dating/sex game to force themselves on unwilling women or women so drunk (sometimes made that way by the predator) they are unable to give any kind of meaningful consent. So, women have pushed for tools and social norms that will hopefully make these predators accountable and offer some level of protection to women. Unfortunately, these tools and social norms have also blunted the inclination of a lot of good dudes to pursue women assertively. Sometimes a woman might give a "soft no" which non-rapists have been conditioned to regard at face value when the woman really meant "try harder."

So, ladies, when you want a guy to come on strong, do you give recognizable signals? Do you have trouble figuring out when, in response, guys are uninterested as opposed to simply oblivious? Does it make the flirting/courtship process less fun if you have to be obvious? Other thoughts?