Anonymous
11/19/2014 19:22
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. I agree that I have always understood the immunity to apply to official functions only
Not quite. There are several categories of immunity that, when most people discuss the concept, frequently all get lumped together under the title of "diplomatic immunity". What type of immunity a diplomat has depends on the exact definition of "diplomat" in that specific person's case; in other words the type of immunity to which someone is entitled depends on several factors especially the specific job function he or she is performing and what country he or she represents. Whether or not said person's spouse and minor children have immunity based on the diplomat's official status is also a complex determination.
"Official Acts" immunity, which is what you mentioned, is the only type of immunity held by the service staff of diplomatic missions. Administrative and technical staff of diplomatic missions hold personal immunity for criminal proceedings and being called as a witness but only hold official acts immunity for civil court proceedings. Diplomatic agents hold full personal inviolability, full immunity from the host nation's jurisdiction in criminal matters, and near full immunity from the host nation's jurisdiction in civil matters; this immunity does not merely cover official acts but also their personal lives. The only people whose families enjoy diplomatic immunity are diplomatic agents, because "official acts" immunity would not apply to spouses and minor children who are not officials of the sending government. That's a very basic explanation, and there are definitely more complex factors that go into making the determination of who enjoys what sort of immunity. If you're interested, have a lot of time on your hands, and like legal language, take a look here for further info: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/150546.pdf
Diplomatic immunity would not apply to the children at school, even if they do hold such immunity through their parent. It only applies in legal matters, so the only time it would come into play is if charges were filed against them or if the school tried to have them arrested for fighting. However, it wouldn't really end up getting them out of trouble, at least not very effectively. Diplomats and their families, in general, have the legal obligation under international law to follow the host country's laws, and I would wager that the sending country would be very annoyed if the children of one of their diplomatic agents were getting in that level of trouble for fights and hooliganism at school. Depending on the circumstances, various consequences could befall the family and it would be a big mess none of which would be pleasant for anyone involved.
OP here. Thank you! I don't really have the time to read all of the info at the link but I do appreciate the legal language. I will give it a speed read!
Anonymous
11/19/2014 19:04
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
It's not just kids of diplomats, its children of affluence. I'm a diplomat posted abroad and the local rich kids at the Embassy school are untouchable. There's a lot of bullying (physically and otherwise). We just had a family leave post for this reason.
I teach my child to hit back. Has worked well for us. Bullies eventually find another target that won't.
I teach my child to hit back. Has worked well for us. Bullies eventually find another target that won't.
Anonymous
11/19/2014 19:03
Subject: Re:Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a diplomat, I don't understand why you would have your kids attend public school instead of private school.
Because not every diplomat is from a wealthy country with the means to put all the kids in private school. Snob.
Ignorant to boot.
DOn't they get education allowance from thir government?
Their home country has to pay for it. Some do. Some don't.
Anonymous
11/19/2014 01:14
Subject: Re:Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a diplomat, I don't understand why you would have your kids attend public school instead of private school.
Because not every diplomat is from a wealthy country with the means to put all the kids in private school. Snob.
Ignorant to boot.
DOn't they get education allowance from thir government?
Anonymous
11/18/2014 23:51
Subject: Re:Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a diplomat, I don't understand why you would have your kids attend public school instead of private school.
Because not every diplomat is from a wealthy country with the means to put all the kids in private school. Snob.
Ignorant to boot.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 23:29
Subject: Re:Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:As a diplomat, I don't understand why you would have your kids attend public school instead of private school.
Because not every diplomat is from a wealthy country with the means to put all the kids in private school. Snob.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 22:19
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I agree that I have always understood the immunity to apply to official functions only
Not quite. There are several categories of immunity that, when most people discuss the concept, frequently all get lumped together under the title of "diplomatic immunity". What type of immunity a diplomat has depends on the exact definition of "diplomat" in that specific person's case; in other words the type of immunity to which someone is entitled depends on several factors especially the specific job function he or she is performing and what country he or she represents. Whether or not said person's spouse and minor children have immunity based on the diplomat's official status is also a complex determination.
"Official Acts" immunity, which is what you mentioned, is the only type of immunity held by the service staff of diplomatic missions. Administrative and technical staff of diplomatic missions hold personal immunity for criminal proceedings and being called as a witness but only hold official acts immunity for civil court proceedings. Diplomatic agents hold full personal inviolability, full immunity from the host nation's jurisdiction in criminal matters, and near full immunity from the host nation's jurisdiction in civil matters; this immunity does not merely cover official acts but also their personal lives. The only people whose families enjoy diplomatic immunity are diplomatic agents, because "official acts" immunity would not apply to spouses and minor children who are not officials of the sending government. That's a very basic explanation, and there are definitely more complex factors that go into making the determination of who enjoys what sort of immunity. If you're interested, have a lot of time on your hands, and like legal language, take a look here for further info: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/150546.pdf
Diplomatic immunity would not apply to the children at school, even if they do hold such immunity through their parent. It only applies in legal matters, so the only time it would come into play is if charges were filed against them or if the school tried to have them arrested for fighting. However, it wouldn't really end up getting them out of trouble, at least not very effectively. Diplomats and their families, in general, have the legal obligation under international law to follow the host country's laws, and I would wager that the sending country would be very annoyed if the children of one of their diplomatic agents were getting in that level of trouble for fights and hooliganism at school. Depending on the circumstances, various consequences could befall the family and it would be a big mess none of which would be pleasant for anyone involved.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 21:57
Subject: Re:Diplomats kids and pulic school
As a diplomat, I don't understand why you would have your kids attend public school instead of private school.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 21:57
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I agree that I have always understood the immunity to apply to official functions only, but we all know of specific case-by-case situations where diplomats have not been charged with speeding tickets, or much worse. However, I have to admit that until recently I have never given much thought to the immunity applying to their children.
DC's school has several children from the foreign diplomat community -- it's been great for the most part. However, there are a couple that repeatedly get in to trouble for seriously acting out in class, punching other children (we're talking serious/real punches to the face and front of body),starting foodfights in the cafeteria, and just all sorts of other similar infractions that just seem to progress and mount up as the years go by. The kids get sent to the vice principal's office and then wind up back in class.
Granted, my DC's haven't been significantly impacted by any of this because they haven't been targeted by any of these kids -- yet. However, they see what happens at school, I have witnessed several things happen over the years on field trips and at school functions myself.
MY DC's are starting to get quite annoyed by it and they have asked me why the kids don't get suspended, etc. I honestly have no answer because I'm not overly aware of everything that happens -- just a casual observer.
Based only on what you have reported here, which we can all acknowledge is only part of the story, it certainly sounds like the school is turning a blind eye to poor behavior from these children and not applying the rules and consequences of the school equally. I can see how that would be annoying. It does not, however, OFFICIALLY have anything to do with the parent's diplomatic status. "High ranking parent" may be the reason the school is willing to let poor behavior slide, but the diplomat parent would not actually be able to (or in all likelihood even think to try to) pressure the school in any way to get them to do so. If this is why the school is not giving these students consequences equal to what other students would receive, and keep in mind that there could be another explanation kept private between the students and the school, school officials are almost certainly electing this course of action of their own personal initiative. The diplomat parent is unlikely to be explicitly made aware that the school is willing to overlook poor behavior, because there is no way the parent (while likely grateful for the leniency in a personal perspective as any parent would be in a similar situation) could allow it to continue because the sending government would never deem such behavior or allowances to be appropriate.
The only way this would actually be "diplomatic immunity" and thus follow OFFICIALLY from the parent's diplomatic status is if either the school or another student's parent had attempted to press charges against the student for assault for punching the classmate but was unable to do so. In that case, depending on a whole host of extremely complex factors for which I cannot offer an actual informed explanation due to not being a lawyer, diplomatic immunity MIGHT come into play and prevent the student from being charged in a criminal or civil proceeding.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 21:44
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
OP here. I agree that I have always understood the immunity to apply to official functions only, but we all know of specific case-by-case situations where diplomats have not been charged with speeding tickets, or much worse. However, I have to admit that until recently I have never given much thought to the immunity applying to their children.
DC's school has several children from the foreign diplomat community -- it's been great for the most part. However, there are a couple that repeatedly get in to trouble for seriously acting out in class, punching other children (we're talking serious/real punches to the face and front of body),starting foodfights in the cafeteria, and just all sorts of other similar infractions that just seem to progress and mount up as the years go by. The kids get sent to the vice principal's office and then wind up back in class.
Granted, my DC's haven't been significantly impacted by any of this because they haven't been targeted by any of these kids -- yet. However, they see what happens at school, I have witnessed several things happen over the years on field trips and at school functions myself.
MY DC's are starting to get quite annoyed by it and they have asked me why the kids don't get suspended, etc. I honestly have no answer because I'm not overly aware of everything that happens -- just a casual observer.
DC's school has several children from the foreign diplomat community -- it's been great for the most part. However, there are a couple that repeatedly get in to trouble for seriously acting out in class, punching other children (we're talking serious/real punches to the face and front of body),starting foodfights in the cafeteria, and just all sorts of other similar infractions that just seem to progress and mount up as the years go by. The kids get sent to the vice principal's office and then wind up back in class.
Granted, my DC's haven't been significantly impacted by any of this because they haven't been targeted by any of these kids -- yet. However, they see what happens at school, I have witnessed several things happen over the years on field trips and at school functions myself.
MY DC's are starting to get quite annoyed by it and they have asked me why the kids don't get suspended, etc. I honestly have no answer because I'm not overly aware of everything that happens -- just a casual observer.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 21:29
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:Explain to me what happens when a diplomat's child repeatedly gets in trouble at school. Are any diplomatic immunities given to the child?
For schoolboy misbehavior such as cutting class, being disruptive, insubordination, inappropriate language and the like, not officially and not by policy. It may be the case that administrators or teachers seem to play favorites and this child is for some reason a favorite (possibly by virtue of the parent's position but that's hard to tell), in which case the student may seem to not get in trouble for poor behavior, but that could happen to anyone if the powers that be decide to play favorites and wouldn't be a direct result of the parent's job.
For things that would constitute a crime, such as assault, theft, arson, etc, this is a very nuanced question but depending on the exact status of the parent a minor child may well hold diplomatic immunity from criminal or civil charges.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 21:08
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Ok, what do you mean by trouble at school? Do you mean a crime for which one could go to jail? That is what diplomatic immunity means. NOT being late to class.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 20:58
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Anonymous wrote:Explain to me what happens when a diplomat's child repeatedly gets in trouble at school. Are any diplomatic immunities given to the child?
Only if the child is an accredited diplomat. In that case, the school may assign a detention, but the child need not serve it.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 20:44
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Absolutely not.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 20:24
Subject: Diplomats kids and pulic school
Explain to me what happens when a diplomat's child repeatedly gets in trouble at school. Are any diplomatic immunities given to the child?