Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 13:32     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.


Jews do not pray to Jesus (except maybe the Jews for Jesus people, but those aren't real Jews). Jews pray to God. Jews do NOT believe Jesus is God at ALL.


Good point. I suppose OP would argue that the Jews got this wrong, and they should be revering the Muslim Jesus (not the very different Christian Jesus) and God had to talk to Mohammed to set both the Jews and Christians straight. You and I are free to ignore that.

The question about whether it's necessary to say "God" to indicate monotheism or an Abrahamic religion is separate. Not sure what I think about that.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 13:26     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
It feels to Jews and Christians as though Islam wants to co-opt their religions and present itself as the ultimate form of monotheism. They don't accept that, especially given the massive differences among the three religions, as PP pointed out. A good parallel is with the Bahais and their prophet: do you accept that this is the perfection of all monotheistic religions including Islam? I didn't think so.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 13:21     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.


Jews do not pray to Jesus (except maybe the Jews for Jesus people, but those aren't real Jews). Jews pray to God. Jews do NOT believe Jesus is God at ALL.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 13:17     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.


As a Muslim I completely understand WHY you don't think we pray to the same God as you. However, from our perspective the true message delivered by Jesus did not teach trinity (see Gospel of Thomas thread). Thus, the message Jesus brought is the same message as Moses brought and it is the same message that Muhammad brought. This is from the Muslim perspective. It emphasizes the oneness of God. So from the Muslim perspective, we do pray to the same God that Moses and Jesus spoke of, although we do not pray to Jesus as God. Muslims know by now that many, not all, Christians believe Jesus is God himself but we do not accept this.

But clearly, Muslim perspective isn't the only one that counts here, is it. If you say "we pray to the same God as Christians", and Christians disagree, you have a de facto impasse. Christians also disagree massively with Muslims on what exactly Jesus' message was. Jews certainly don't look to Muslims to interpret what exactly was the message that Moses brought. That Muslims would like to draw these figures under the umbrella of Islam doesn't mean much to Jews and Christians.


+1000. I've pointed out elsewhere that the Christian Jesus, who got rid of eye-for-eye vengeance and more Old Testament things, is very different from the Quranic Jesus and message. You may want to put them under the same umbrella, but for Christians that doesn't really work.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 12:59     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:
As a Muslim I completely understand WHY you don't think we pray to the same God as you. However, from our perspective the true message delivered by Jesus did not teach trinity (see Gospel of Thomas thread). Thus, the message Jesus brought is the same message as Moses brought and it is the same message that Muhammad brought. This is from the Muslim perspective. It emphasizes the oneness of God. So from the Muslim perspective, we do pray to the same God that Moses and Jesus spoke of, although we do not pray to Jesus as God. Muslims know by now that many, not all, Christians believe Jesus is God himself but we do not accept this.

I don't understand this "by now" business. The Nicean creed was well-established before Islam emerged. What Christians believed in the 7th century and what they believe today isn't much different. Muslims should have known that from day 1, not "by now."
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 12:57     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
PS: And it really isn't Islamophobic to point that out.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 12:56     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.


As a Muslim I completely understand WHY you don't think we pray to the same God as you. However, from our perspective the true message delivered by Jesus did not teach trinity (see Gospel of Thomas thread). Thus, the message Jesus brought is the same message as Moses brought and it is the same message that Muhammad brought. This is from the Muslim perspective. It emphasizes the oneness of God. So from the Muslim perspective, we do pray to the same God that Moses and Jesus spoke of, although we do not pray to Jesus as God. Muslims know by now that many, not all, Christians believe Jesus is God himself but we do not accept this.

But clearly, Muslim perspective isn't the only one that counts here, is it. If you say "we pray to the same God as Christians", and Christians disagree, you have a de facto impasse. Christians also disagree massively with Muslims on what exactly Jesus' message was. Jews certainly don't look to Muslims to interpret what exactly was the message that Moses brought. That Muslims would like to draw these figures under the umbrella of Islam doesn't mean much to Jews and Christians.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2014 12:14     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.


As a Muslim I completely understand WHY you don't think we pray to the same God as you. However, from our perspective the true message delivered by Jesus did not teach trinity (see Gospel of Thomas thread). Thus, the message Jesus brought is the same message as Moses brought and it is the same message that Muhammad brought. This is from the Muslim perspective. It emphasizes the oneness of God. So from the Muslim perspective, we do pray to the same God that Moses and Jesus spoke of, although we do not pray to Jesus as God. Muslims know by now that many, not all, Christians believe Jesus is God himself but we do not accept this.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2014 20:07     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.


So you would say in English that Arab Christians worship God while Muslims worship Allah even though in Arabic both use Allah to name their deity?
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2014 20:05     Subject: Re:The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
In English, we use God to refer to a monotheistic God. That does not prevent different monotheistic religions from ascribing different characteristics to God. Christians have a trinitarian God, Jews and Muslims do not.

If a capitalized term other than God is used to refer to a god, in English it connotes a polytheistic deity such as Rama, Odin, or Isis.

In English, using Allah to refer to God as Muslims worship Him implies Muslims worship a polytheistic deity. This is simply not the case.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2014 19:47     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


To be fair, these three versions of "God" are each very different in their demands on their followers.

Jewish people often write G-d or Yahweh. I'd be interested to hear a Jew explain to us whether they'd prefer us to write God, or something else, when referring to the Hebrew Bible.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2014 19:46     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


I respectfully disagree with this. As a Christian I do not believe that Muslims pray to the same God as I do. Nor do Jewish people. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but my God is a trinity which must include Jesus. If you do not believe in Jesus as God, then we do not believe in the same god. We don't need to believe in the same god to be respectful to one another.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2014 19:25     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
Anonymous wrote:One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.


+1

Saying Allah in English to refer to the god Muslims worship is stylistically incorrect, theologically suspect, and a subtle undermining of Islam.

Someone on the Ebola thread got exercised about posters referring to Medcins Sans Frontiers instead of Doctors Without Border when writing in English. Using Allah instead of God is a much worse offense.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2014 19:06     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
One of them is when people think they're being PC and saying it doesn't matter if you pray to God or Allah or whoever you believe in. Allah = Arabic for God. I truly believe lots of celebrities who say this WANT to set Islam apart in a negative way -- in a -- oh we respect Muslims, they just pray to some other foreign God. Um no -- they pray to the same God as Christians and Jews.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2014 10:56     Subject: The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia
I will use this thread to post examples of the subtle ways islamophobia may present, since its not always overt verbal or physical abuse. I will also provide links and quotes from leaders in the Muslim community to explain some of the common ways Islam is vilified.

One common micro aggression is to make Islam sound as if its an exotic religion, because it emphasizes that it isn't a commonly accepted belief system here in our country. This continues to identify Islam as a foreign religion rather than another accepted faith in our community.

I will explain and add more information as I find it.